Help file in Windows 7

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zer0
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Help file in Windows 7

Post by zer0 »

Hooray, I've upgraded to Windows 7! 8)

Not all is kosher though, because I don't seem to be able to read XY's Help file. Also, according to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917607 there won't be a stand-alone download of WinHlp32.exe until Windows 7 goes public and that's in over 2 month's time! I decided not to post it in the Bugs section, even though it's a sign of incompatibility between a component of XY and Windows 7. Is there a solution that you, Don, can provide in the meantime please?
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by admin »

Get PDF help from the lic lounge.

zer0
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by zer0 »

admin wrote:Get PDF help from the lic lounge.
Yes, I thought you'd say that. I already have it, but find it nowhere near as easy to use as the help file that's integrated into XYplorer, especially in terms of navigation. I guess I'll have to bite the bullet on this one. Can't even run it in compatibility mode, since it's not an EXE, sigh... :roll:

P.S. I remembered that we voted (http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2781) and CHM came up trumps. There was some discussion towards the end of last year (http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2618) but it was to no avail. Is there a possibility of light at the end of the tunnel, because I don't think Microsoft will provide WinHlp32.exe beyond Windows 7, the date of release for the latter is unknown too.
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by admin »

zer0 wrote:
admin wrote:Get PDF help from the lic lounge.
Yes, I thought you'd say that. I already have it, but find it nowhere near as easy to use as the help file that's integrated into XYplorer, especially in terms of navigation. I guess I'll have to bite the bullet on this one. Can't even run it in compatibility mode, since it's not an EXE, sigh... :roll:

P.S. I remembered that we voted (http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2781) and CHM came up trumps. There was some discussion towards the end of last year (http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2618) but it was to no avail. Is there a possibility of light at the end of the tunnel, because I don't think Microsoft will provide WinHlp32.exe beyond Windows 7, the date of release for the latter is unknown too.
We had all this several times before. I'm ready to spent 500 Euros for a good Help Authoring tool but believe me, there is none. Case closed.

Windows 7 is not even officially released. I don't bother working around bugs of a pre-release.

zer0
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by zer0 »

admin wrote:We had all this several times before. I'm ready to spent 500 Euros for a good Help Authoring tool but believe me, there is none. Case closed.
Got it, will make do with PDF help for now while I wait for Microsoft to release WinHlp.
admin wrote:Windows 7 is not even officially released. I don't bother working around bugs of a pre-release.
Au contraire, mon fraire. Windows 7 has officially been released. The code has been frozen, it RTMed just under a month ago. It's not Generally Available yet, but it's exactly in this period between RTM and GA when bugs need to be ironed out. I'm glad to see a few forum members already using Windows 7. You claim that XYplorer is Windows 7 compatible, so we're here to provide the testing platform ;)

EDIT: Just remembered, what about Trial users on Windows 7? They have no access to the license lounge, so they can't grab the PDF file and they can't view it in their OS either. It's not the best impression to give, if I'm honest. :(
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mwb1100
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by mwb1100 »

admin wrote: We had all this several times before. I'm ready to spent 500 Euros for a good Help Authoring tool but believe me, there is none. Case closed.
At the risk of being scolded for possibly beating a dead horse, was JGSoft's "HelpScribble" one of the pieces of software you tried? I know clauderenaud mentioned it a while back ("Help in chm format"), but I wan't sure if you looked at that software or just the HelpNDoc that was also mentioned in the thread.

Unfortuantely, I can't vouch for HelpScribble, but some of the other software by JGSoft I do use and have purchased, so I'd venture that there's a good chance that HelpScribble might be more helpful than not.

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Re: Help file in Windows 7

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mwb1100 wrote:
admin wrote: We had all this several times before. I'm ready to spent 500 Euros for a good Help Authoring tool but believe me, there is none. Case closed.
At the risk of being scolded for possibly beating a dead horse, was JGSoft's "HelpScribble" one of the pieces of software you tried? I know clauderenaud mentioned it a while back ("Help in chm format"), but I wan't sure if you looked at that software or just the HelpNDoc that was also mentioned in the thread.

Unfortuantely, I can't vouch for HelpScribble, but some of the other software by JGSoft I do use and have purchased, so I'd venture that there's a good chance that HelpScribble might be more helpful than not.
No, but thanks anyway!

I won't spend a minute more of my life with evaluating Help software. The only way CHM will happen is perfect one-click results from DOC to CHM. I will happily give the DOC help source to everybody who wants to have a try, I could even make it available in the lic lounge. Hey, if you find that software for me I give you 100 Euros right away via PayPal!

zer0
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by zer0 »

admin wrote:No, but thanks anyway!

I won't spend a minute more of my life with evaluating Help software. The only way CHM will happen is perfect one-click results from DOC to CHM. I will happily give the DOC help source to everybody who wants to have a try, I could even make it available in the lic lounge. Hey, if you find that software for me I give you 100 Euros right away via PayPal!
Sure, make them public (as in completely public, not just license lounge) and let people have a go at tinkering with them. We are the ones who want an alternative (better?) help format, so we should make a better effort. Besides, 100 Euros is a very tempting reward 8)
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by admin »

zer0 wrote:
admin wrote:No, but thanks anyway!

I won't spend a minute more of my life with evaluating Help software. The only way CHM will happen is perfect one-click results from DOC to CHM. I will happily give the DOC help source to everybody who wants to have a try, I could even make it available in the lic lounge. Hey, if you find that software for me I give you 100 Euros right away via PayPal!
Sure, make them public (as in completely public, not just license lounge) and let people have a go at tinkering with them. We are the ones who want an alternative (better?) help format, so we should make a better effort. Besides, 100 Euros is a very tempting reward 8)
No problem: here's the original Help Source of v8.20.0000:
XYplorer-HelpSource-v8.20.zip
(293.2 KiB) Downloaded 162 times

zer0
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by zer0 »

admin wrote:No problem: here's the original Help Source of v8.20.0000:
Being picky here, but that's not a DOC help source that you've mentioned before, it's in Rich Text Format. This makes things more complicated... :?
Reporting a bug? Have a wish? Got a question? Use search - View roadmap - FAQs: Forum + XY site
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by admin »

zer0 wrote:
admin wrote:No problem: here's the original Help Source of v8.20.0000:
Being picky here, but that's not a DOC help source that you've mentioned before, it's in Rich Text Format. This makes things more complicated... :?
Whoops, sorry, right.

mwb1100
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by mwb1100 »

Well, I gave a shot with HelpScribble. I imported the .hpj/.rtf files into the program, but no go - virtually all the topics ended up displaying what appeared to be font selection, font sizing and other RTF(?) formatting codes.

I know Don's not surprised, but I was hopeful this would work better (even if not 1 click).

mwb1100
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by mwb1100 »

I took another quick pass at this, following HelpScribble suggestion that if there were problems importing an .hpj/.rtf project to use a decompiler tool to recreate a fresh, 'cleaner' set of .hpj/.rtf files to import. This worked much better, but it's still not 100%. No table of contents and some RTF codes still leaked through. But it seemed a decent starting point (but certainly not a zero-effort conversion).

I've attached the resulting CHM help file in case anyone wants to look.
Attachments
sample.chm.zip
Prototype HTML Help file for XYplorer 8.20
(221.24 KiB) Downloaded 124 times

admin
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

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mwb1100 wrote:I took another quick pass at this, following HelpScribble suggestion that if there were problems importing an .hpj/.rtf project to use a decompiler tool to recreate a fresh, 'cleaner' set of .hpj/.rtf files to import. This worked much better, but it's still not 100%. No table of contents and some RTF codes still leaked through. But it seemed a decent starting point (but certainly not a zero-effort conversion).

I've attached the resulting CHM help file in case anyone wants to look.
Thanks for trying, but I will only start looking at it when
(1) it's a one-click thing
(2) it has a TOC
(3) all external and internal links work
(4) the fonts and formats look (nearly) exactly as in the HLP file
(5) no RTF garbage anywhere

I'd say this is the minimum one would reasonably expect from a software that calls itself HLP conversion/authoring tool and costs money, and I'm still surprised that nobody seems to come up with an acceptable product. I can only conclude that it is not possible for technical reasons.

Don

mwb1100
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Re: Help file in Windows 7

Post by mwb1100 »

admin wrote:Thanks for trying, but I will only start looking at it when...
Understood. I was just reporting results.

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