XYplorer should save ini files as soon as tags or comments

[kartal]

XYplorer should save ini files as soon as tags or comments are updated. I just lost quite a bit of tagging and commenting because Xyplorer has crashed for unknown reason. I can see the point of not auto saving the rest of the settings but to me tags and comments require little different attention. As a user I would like to see that Xyp saves the tags and comments automatically or within given interval. Because loosing tags and comments leaves quite nasty feeling behind.


thanks

[zer0]

There is a somewhat related thread here: http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2923
Doesn't look like it went down too well...

[kartal]

zer0 thanks for pointing out. I am actually not asking for a full featured config autosave rather I am asking of autosaving of comments and tags. And I think that my argument is little different that those who talked about the autosave. Because tags and comments are different little bit. Lets say I have tagged and commented 500 files. Xyplorer needs to ensure that I will be fine next time I open Xyplorer when it comes to tags and comments. Because I am at the moment relying on these features to run my current project. If something to happen those tags and comments I might get screwed pretty much.

[admin]

The general problem with auto-save is that the computer cannot know what's good for you. He will happily overwrite your valuable tags and comments with junk when the moment of auto-save arrives.

I personally experienced a desaster with auto-save in Word years ago, and ever since, turning off any auto-save is the first thing I do when configuring a software.

Okay, your answer of course is: That's the user's problem. He's responsible. Bump me after DP is implemented, please.

[kartal]

That is great to hear. I guess until then I will make sure that my hands are on keyboard to save frequently.

Btw do you have any plans to have seperate file tags in folders like windows icon files? This way users can share the tags because as soon as another user opens the same folder on a network drive they can see the tags and comments. Although I am really not sure how much you would lean towards such solution due to some performance or security issues.

[admin]

That is great to hear. I guess until then I will make sure that my hands are on keyboard to save frequently.

Btw do you have any plans to have seperate file tags in folders like windows icon files? This way users can share the tags because as soon as another user opens the same folder on a network drive they can see the tags and comments. Although I am really not sure how much you would lean towards such solution due to some performance or security issues.

You mean to additionally read any tag.dat (or xytag.dat to give it a less likely name) found inside the folder. Yes, I've been thinking about this. It has its pros and cons, but I do not totally dislike it.

[kartal]

yeah definetely, that way Xyplorer can become a simple project team environment. I think color coding and and commenting is implemented very well at the moment(except when the files are copied). This stuff can easily improve people`s lives. Windows had comment feature for a long time but it was never implemented properly so people never used it. I believe that is not the case for Xyp

That is great to hear. I guess until then I will make sure that my hands are on keyboard to save frequently.

Btw do you have any plans to have seperate file tags in folders like windows icon files? This way users can share the tags because as soon as another user opens the same folder on a network drive they can see the tags and comments. Although I am really not sure how much you would lean towards such solution due to some performance or security issues.

You mean to additionally read any tag.dat (or xytag.dat to give it a less likely name) found inside the folder. Yes, I've been thinking about this. It has its pros and cons, but I do not totally dislike it.

[admin]

yeah definetely, that way Xyplorer can become a simple project team environment. I think color coding and and commenting is implemented very well at the moment(except when the files are copied). This stuff can easily improve people`s lives. Windows had comment feature for a long time but it was never implemented properly so people never used it. I believe that is not the case for Xyp

Except when the files are copied: so there's still a demand for this? I did not implement because I thought it's not a good idea. Technically it'd be no problem.

[kartal]

Well, my personal choice is towards copying the properties of the file when the file is copied. But I have seen the forum topics regarding the issue so I did not want to get into debate about it since there does not seem to be common consensus about it. In my view a copy is a copy thus it should be more like an instance. If someone wants to copy a file without properties of the original file they can always use Xyp convention "ctrl+s"(should work on multiple files and should accept file path in the dialog too) which is saving the file as you know but then this is not so much of a Windows convention. I favour your implementation of saving a file which is very very logical.

Or we can maybe have another internal copy function that copies with the properties thus the user can assign standard copy paste to those new commands.

yeah definetely, that way Xyplorer can become a simple project team environment. I think color coding and and commenting is implemented very well at the moment(except when the files are copied). This stuff can easily improve people`s lives. Windows had comment feature for a long time but it was never implemented properly so people never used it. I believe that is not the case for Xyp

Except when the files are copied: so there's still a demand for this? I did not implement because I thought it's not a good idea. Technically it'd be no problem.

[mwb1100]

The general problem with auto-save is that the computer cannot know what's good for you. He will happily overwrite your valuable tags and comments with junk when the moment of auto-save arrives.

Maybe this problem could be solved by having the autosave occur to a different location, only to be 'committed' to the actual .ini file on command (or on exit if appropriate). Maybe to an 'xyplorer.autosave.ini' file?

Of course, not to be worried about until after DP...

[admin]

The general problem with auto-save is that the computer cannot know what's good for you. He will happily overwrite your valuable tags and comments with junk when the moment of auto-save arrives.

Maybe this problem could be solved by having the autosave occur to a different location, only to be 'committed' to the actual .ini file on command (or on exit if appropriate). Maybe to an 'xyplorer.autosave.ini' file?

It's an idea.

[j_c_hallgren]

Maybe this problem could be solved by having the autosave occur to a different location, only to be 'committed' to the actual .ini file on command (or on exit if appropriate). Maybe to an 'xyplorer.autosave.ini' file?

It's an idea.

Seems like a good compromise solution, since as long as data gets saved somewhere on disk, that's the critical part...

[admin]

Frankly, I don't see autosave anywhere in the foreseeable future. It's not on my list.

[zer0]

Frankly, I don't see autosave anywhere in the foreseeable future. It's not on my list.

While it's clear that Don has made up his mind about this and I don't want to push the envelope, the overall wish of having auto-save is a good thing to have.

I think it generally comes down to perceptions and expectations. There is a difference between what's perceived to be saved and what is ACTUALLY saved. Let's have a look at an example: adding a command to UDC menu, a script to be more specific. I've added a script, assigned a CKS to it, clicked Apply and then OK to close the UDC menu. As far as I can tell, this UDC is saved because I can use it straight away, but is it actually saved? No, it is not. It is held in some temporary storage until I either MANUALLY save the settings or exit the program. The issue is that the fact that you can use a UDC once you've OKed it in the UDC window creates a perception that this command is saved and people don't discover that this is not the case until it's too late.

This brings us onto the issue of user expectations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that "Save settings on exit" is not enabled by default. Also, taking into account that

Code: Select all

; Tweak: set to 1 to get nagged by an 'Exit XYplorer now?' prompt.
PromptOnXClose=1

is set to "0" by default, the chances of accidental closing of XY are on the up. There is no tweak to get prompted that changes that a person has made will be lost if he/she were to close XY. I don't know about other File Managers, but in Windows Explorer if you've made a change, clicked OK and after a while WE crashed the change would have been safe. An obvious example of auto-save would be a Word processor, like MS Word, and there auto-save is enabled by default. In fact, that's how it works: a temporary copy of a document is made while you're editing and once you've saved the changes and closed the app it overwrites the original one. The changes are saved on the fly though.

To sum up, I think it's a bit unfair that users are made to find out "the hard way" that changes that they perceive to be saved haven't actually been saved. I also don't think it's reasonable for a common user not to expect his/hers settings to be saved when taking the steps I've described above. Of course, auto-save is not for everyone, there is no denying that, but I have a feeling that as time goes by there will be more people with similar expectations, especially if XYplorer will increase its audience by making inroads into competitors' market share. However, at the end of the day, this is Don's app so it's up to him to decide what happens with it. We can only humbly put our wishes forward for his consideration

[kartal]

I know Don said that he had bad experience with autosave. I myself had good experiences in the past , auto save always saved my neck. Mainly because none of the applications I use "auto-save" over the original file , rather they have incremental auto-save to dedicated auto-save directory. It is always good idea not to use a broad brush regarding a particular issue and it is always helpful to separate different solutions from each other.