About betas

ivan · Post by **ivan** » 28 Jul 2008 18:35

This one got me a little confused.

Today Don posted new official release (7.40.0000) and it's possible to download it via this link

http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_full.zip

However, he also posted this in the BETA section of the forum:

http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_7.40_beta.zip

What's the difference?

Also, why is it not possible for the download links of betas to reflect the version number of that particular release? For example, say a beta was released last Monday with a version number of 7.30.ABCD and on Friday of last week another version of the beta was released with the version number 7.30.WXYZ. The question is: why is it not possible for me to download the ABCD beta several days after its release? Turns out that if I wanted to download the ABCD beta I'd get the WXYZ beta instead. Is there a reason for that?

P.S. The thought behind the latter question is that some people may like the changes in earlier betas but something radical (like different delete script commands) may happen in later betas that some people rather not have.

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 28 Jul 2008 18:40

I'm sure Don will answer, but my understanding is that having matching beta and official releases avail via diff names is to aid in use by scripts.

And using the same name for multiple betas is to make it easier on Don is my recollection, but also makes pseudo-auto-update via scripts possible.

Post by **serendipity** » 28 Jul 2008 18:44

I don't remember the reason, but thats the way it works. User has to keep copies of older betas. But you can't expect XY website to store all the old betas right? That said, it would be useful to have atleast 5 or more previous betas somewhere for users to go back if they have problems with latest one.

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 28 Jul 2008 18:51

ivan wrote:Today Don posted new official release (7.40.0000) and it's possible to download it via this link
http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_full.zip

To address serendipity's thoughts, how about having a similar set of these for betas? Such as
//www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_beta_cur.zip
//www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_beta_cur-1.zip
//www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_beta_cur-2.zip
etc...up to "cur-9" maybe?
This would make it non-version specific, yet allow user to retrieve a recent vers, but would limit it to a fixed set of items. This could be automated via scripting to "roll" them down reducing manual work for Don.

ivan · Post by **ivan** » 28 Jul 2008 18:52

serendipity wrote:That said, it would be useful to have atleast 5 or more previous betas somewhere for users to go back if they have problems with latest one.

That would be good. Perhaps only all the betas within the previous range should be kept. For example, now that 7.40 has been released, all betas in the 7.20.xxxx range can be "deleted" and so on.

Post by **serendipity** » 28 Jul 2008 18:53

j_c_hallgren wrote:
ivan wrote:Today Don posted new official release (7.40.0000) and it's possible to download it via this link
http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_full.zip
To address serenddipity's thoughts, how about having a similar set of these for betas? Such as
//www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_beta_cur.zip
//www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_beta_cur-1.zip
//www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_beta_cur-2.zip
etc...up to "cur-5" maybe?
This would make it non-version specific, yet allow user to retrieve a recent vers.

Thats amazing, I thought of the exact same thing, with -1, -2 etc. So you are reading minds too?

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 28 Jul 2008 18:57

serendipity wrote:Thats amazing, I thought of the exact same thing, with -1, -2 etc. So you are reading minds too?

As the saying goes: "Great minds think alike!"

I just was thinking how best to make it easy to follow, and that was my guess.

jacky · Post by **jacky** » 28 Jul 2008 18:57

ivan wrote:What's the difference?

None, those are the same version exactly.

ivan wrote:Also, why is it not possible for the download links of betas to reflect the version number of that particular release?

Cause it's too much work for not much, and there's no reason to waste time on this. Sure, a new beta might have a new bug one really doesn't like, but it's up to you to keep the latest beta you are fine with before installing a new one. Just like you might want to read the changelog first...
After all, as the name states it's "beta" !

ivan · Post by **ivan** » 28 Jul 2008 19:06

jacky wrote:Cause it's too much work for not much, and there's no reason to waste time on this. Sure, a new beta might have a new bug one really doesn't like, but it's up to you to keep the latest beta you are fine with before installing a new one. Just like you might want to read the changelog first...
After all, as the name states it's "beta" !

Yeah, sure is a beta.

I'm just thinking along these lines (example) :

1. My wish was implemented in Tuesday's beta.
2. My script became useless in Thursday's beta
3. I was busy at work all week.
4. Found some time during a weekend to update.
5. Oh bummer, I can't get the Wednesday's beta any more

The practice of keeping a handful of past somethings is quite common these days. I'm sure people don't like to be told that they missed the train

eurytos · Post by **eurytos** » 28 Jul 2008 19:19

why not just archive them before you download? It doesn't take much work to add that into an upgrade script.

Since they are beta versions it is a good idea to at least keep the last 'stable' beta version you downloaded and the last stable 'major' release. I also suggest taking a backup of the XYplorer installation folder before upgrading.

My hands do not need to be held for every possible scenario. If the release notes mention something was changed which may cause me problems I take appropriate action before I update (either wait and read comments or make sure I have a good backup before I install the new version).

Plus I enjoy getting my almost daily (sometimes more) beta version and checking out the new changes. The more work Don has to perform to post a new beta will mean less beta posting over time. I am not saying he will do less development but I am sure he will be less likely post minor updates if he knows it will take him 5-10 minutes instead of 30 seconds.

I do partially agree with you because I believe there are valid reasons to maintain a public archive of the major releases (at least back to the last main release aka: 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3) but I think it is waste of time to maintain the betas.

ivan · Post by **ivan** » 28 Jul 2008 19:33

That's the thing though. Sometimes, a person may be between a rock and a hard place: their wish was implemented but something was added/changed which may cause issues. How is one supposed to behave in such situation?

Well I also don't treat betas as an absolute necessity. Hold your horses though because I am not being ungrateful, I'm just not used to a new version of a software product being released on pretty much a daily basis.

A public archive of major versions would be good but the betas would also benefit from keeping somewhere as well. Maybe not anywhere obvious but definitely accessible. I just think that it has got to the point when differences between major releases are almost as stark as they are between betas on consecutive weekends

jacky · Post by **jacky** » 28 Jul 2008 19:34

ivan wrote:1. My wish was implemented in Tuesday's beta.
2. My script became useless in Thursday's beta
3. I was busy at work all week.
4. Found some time during a weekend to update.
5. Oh bummer, I can't get the Wednesday's beta any more

In that case, it's simple : if your script became useless because of a permanent change, you will have to fix the situation anyway since all following betas & official releases won't change anything, so it's on you.

If not (eg new bug), then you have to wait a couple more days for the new beta that fixes everything. Even then, I'm pretty sure make XY having new (beta) out with implemented new feature/wish/bugfix in a much much faster timeline than about any other software out there, so really, why complain?

PS: all main new versions are still available. For instance, this link is still working: http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplor ... nstall.zip
It contains the last beta of the 7.00 branch, which is the same as the official 7.10 really. Same goes with other version

ivan · Post by **ivan** » 28 Jul 2008 19:45

jacky wrote:In that case, it's simple : if your script became useless because of a permanent change, you will have to fix the situation anyway since all following betas & official releases won't change anything, so it's on you.

But what if I don't want to? What if I want to make sure my wish was done correctly and still have whatever was working properly to work properly.

jacky wrote:If not (eg new bug), then you have to wait a couple more days for the new beta that fixes everything. Even then, I'm pretty sure make XY having new (beta) out with implemented new feature/wish/bugfix in a much much faster timeline than about any other software out there, so really, why complain?

Not complaining about timelines

I just like feeling when I'm in a supermarket and there's a shelf-full of freshly-baked blueberry muffins I can pick whichever one I choose.

jacky wrote:PS: all main new versions are still available. For instance, this link is still working: http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplor ... nstall.zip
It contains the last beta of the 7.00 branch, which is the same as the official 7.10 really. Same goes with other version

Sure, but it's betas we're talking about. Even a week's worth would be good

Post by **admin** » 28 Jul 2008 20:00

jacky wrote:
ivan wrote:1. My wish was implemented in Tuesday's beta.
2. My script became useless in Thursday's beta
3. I was busy at work all week.
4. Found some time during a weekend to update.
5. Oh bummer, I can't get the Wednesday's beta any more
In that case, it's simple : if your script became useless because of a permanent change, you will have to fix the situation anyway since all following betas & official releases won't change anything, so it's on you.

If not (eg new bug), then you have to wait a couple more days for the new beta that fixes everything. Even then, I'm pretty sure make XY having new (beta) out with implemented new feature/wish/bugfix in a much much faster timeline than about any other software out there, so really, why complain?

PS: all main new versions are still available. For instance, this link is still working: http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplor ... nstall.zip
It contains the last beta of the 7.00 branch, which is the same as the official 7.10 really. Same goes with other version

These are all available in http://www.xyplorer.com/download/

XYplorer_4.40_BETA.zip
XYplorer_4.50_BETA.zip
XYplorer_4.60_BETA.zip
XYplorer_5.00_BETA.zip
xyplorer_5.10_beta.zip
xyplorer_5.10_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_5.20_beta.zip
xyplorer_5.20_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_5.40_beta.zip
xyplorer_5.40_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_5.50_beta.zip
xyplorer_5.50_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_5.60_beta.zip
xyplorer_5.60_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_5.80_beta.zip
xyplorer_5.80_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.00_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.00_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.10_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.10_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.20_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.20_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.30_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.30_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.40_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.40_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.50_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.50_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.60_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.60_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.70_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.70_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_6.80_beta.zip
xyplorer_6.80_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_7.00_beta.zip
xyplorer_7.00_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_7.10_beta.zip
xyplorer_7.10_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_7.20_beta.zip
xyplorer_7.20_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_7.30_beta.zip
xyplorer_7.30_beta_noinstall.zip
xyplorer_7.40_beta.zip
xyplorer_7.40_beta_noinstall.zip

Post by **admin** » 28 Jul 2008 20:02

jacky wrote:
ivan wrote:Also, why is it not possible for the download links of betas to reflect the version number of that particular release?
Cause it's too much work for not much, and there's no reason to waste time on this.

Bingo!

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