About betas

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 28 Jul 2008 20:03

After reading jacky's, ivan's and eurytos' comments, I'm still convinced that using a script to roll betas thru a set of "cur-x" names shouldn't take more than a few seconds to run, and would provide the needed ability to retrieve a fairly recent vers to users without their having to do additional or extra work.

A script that would essentially:
delete cur-10
rename cur-9 to cur-10
rename cur-8 to cur-9
---etc ending with --
rename cur to cur-1
copy 7.xx beta to cur

And I'm guessing the 7.xx value/setting could be handled so it wouldn't have to be adjusted each official release.

There have been times when I was a couple of beta releases behind and I wished to be able to step thru them to see how things had changed, but as I was unable to D/L them on those days, I couldn't do so.

Post by **admin** » 28 Jul 2008 20:05

eurytos wrote:I do partially agree with you because I believe there are valid reasons to maintain a public archive of the major releases (at least back to the last main release aka: 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3) but I think it is waste of time to maintain the betas.

Yes, I could easily provide them. But up to now nobody ever asked me for a back version! The demand is ZERO. So I don't feel any need to act. African saying: Don't take off your shoes before you reach the river.

jacky · Post by **jacky** » 28 Jul 2008 20:30

j_c_hallgren wrote:I'm still convinced that using a script to roll betas thru a set of "cur-x" names shouldn't take more than a few seconds to run

Maybe, but you realize that once done Don would have to re-upload each file to the server, because the server isn't Don's computer, and it's probably not running Windows. Or it needs to be a PHP script that handles everything with the right rights, and that means time should be spent working on that script, and again, in the past we've had moments where we felt the need to roll back to a previous beta for a few days, and it's never been problematic. Either we have or someone else here has a version that fits and is happy to provide it for us, and a few days later Don comes with a new beta.

If there was a real issue here, with regularly situations where this would be required, maybe. But currently I don't see no reason to give more work to Don.

Hell, you want that : do it yourself! I'm sure Don wouldn't mind, so keep all the different versions around, make sure to rename all files with your number prefix, and see if all that work and time is really worth it. Meanwhile, Don can be busy with something more important...

And here comes my list of wishes for Don to work on...

Dirhael · Post by **Dirhael** » 28 Jul 2008 20:35

I don't see much of a problem keeping a local archive for oneself considering that each zip file is just around 1MB and below. Since I first started using XYplorer I've built up quite the collection, 234 installers to be exact (excluding the final releases), yet I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to revert to an earlier build because something broke worse than in the build I had installed before it...

Post by **admin** » 28 Jul 2008 20:44

Dirhael wrote:I don't see much of a problem keeping a local archive for oneself considering that each zip file is just around 1MB and below. Since I first started using XYplorer I've built up quite the collection, 234 installers to be exact (excluding the final releases), yet I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to revert to an earlier build because something broke worse than in the build I had installed before it...

So here you go: Dirhael is the Lord of the Back Catalog!

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 28 Jul 2008 20:45

jacky wrote:Maybe, but you realize that once done Don would have to re-upload each file to the server, because the server isn't Don's computer,

Just curious...why would he have to re-upload anything? All the needed files would exist on server after the very first time, since it's just a set of renames and copies...and I just used the term script as generic for whatever method/language would be easiest.

Even keeping a total of three vers (curr thru -2) would likely be enough to be able to handle the cases that I encountered personally.

Dirhael · Post by **Dirhael** » 28 Jul 2008 21:01

admin wrote:
Dirhael wrote:I don't see much of a problem keeping a local archive for oneself considering that each zip file is just around 1MB and below. Since I first started using XYplorer I've built up quite the collection, 234 installers to be exact (excluding the final releases), yet I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to revert to an earlier build because something broke worse than in the build I had installed before it...
So here you go: Dirhael is the Lord of the Back Catalog!

Hehe, at times I think I'm taking it to far...I just hate deleting things when I don't absolutely have to. No wonder I always run out of space no matter how many HDD's I buy

Post by **admin** » 28 Jul 2008 21:23

Dirhael wrote:
admin wrote:
Dirhael wrote:I don't see much of a problem keeping a local archive for oneself considering that each zip file is just around 1MB and below. Since I first started using XYplorer I've built up quite the collection, 234 installers to be exact (excluding the final releases), yet I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to revert to an earlier build because something broke worse than in the build I had installed before it...
So here you go: Dirhael is the Lord of the Back Catalog!
Hehe, at times I think I'm taking it to far...I just hate deleting things when I don't absolutely have to. No wonder I always run out of space no matter how many HDD's I buy

Yep, it can become an obsession. It helps to remind oneself once in a while that sooner or later (okay, pretty much later) the sun will explode, then implode, then become a black hole and reduce your back catalog to nothing.

PeterH · Post by **PeterH** » 28 Jul 2008 23:32

Sorry - I don't get you! What is better in having a version v7.30.-3 than having v7.30.0025 ??? As for the last form I know, what is meant. Always!

The only advantage of -2 is, that you could easy build a script to automatically download -2 for one time...
...but when you need it the first time in 13 months, the syntax has changed to v8.110.-04, so you first have to manually change you script to automatically download the old version

And if I want t fallback to an old version with a special contents, I normally know it's subversion, but not, if it's -4 or -6...

Here I'm with Dirhael, having saved each downloaded version - with names like v4r10m0011 or V7.40.0000 - and *if* I ever will need one, I will recognize it - automatically

And I think, for Don it's less work to add a new version with it's complete name, than to rename the previous 9 versions one level deeper before downloading the current version, isn't it?
But if he doesn't - I'll continue to add .0023 to the name of the downloaded file.

RalphM · Post by **RalphM** » 29 Jul 2008 00:11

admin wrote:Yes, I could easily provide them. But up to now nobody ever asked me for a back version! The demand is ZERO. So I don't feel any need to act. African saying: Don't take off your shoes before you reach the river.

Probably because all regulars back 'em up themselves, he he.
I keep at least the last 30 betas - though I have to admit, so far I never had to go back.
Anyway, me thinks the discussion isn't about being able to keep older versions somehow, it's rather about how to get an older beta, if you missed to download it before the next one was out.
I'm downloading the betas daily (unless I'm on vacation), so I don't really need older versions available for later download, but apparently there's some need from others.
Maybe we could put 'em on the wiki somehow the way JC proposed.

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 29 Jul 2008 09:22

RalphM wrote:Anyway, me thinks the discussion isn't about being able to keep older versions somehow, it's rather about how to get an older beta, if you missed to download it before the next one was out.

Exactly! And if you're behind a few vers for some reason (like on trip, vacation, etc) and you download latest beta and it's prior to a problem being discovered (or while a fix is being worked on), there is currently no easy way to get the next previous vers which likely would be before the problem was introduced, but after another issue that user was having has been resolved.

Example using simulated vers nbrs: User is at 7.40.03, has a problem that is fixed in 7.40.05, but while away from Net/PC, vers is now up to 7.40.09 and it has an issue that would affect that user negatively. User is thus unable to get 7.40.05 and has to wait until 7.40.12 is available. But by having a minimal set of prior vers avail, user could determine from change logs that via "cur-2" would get him/her 7.40.05 in the interim.

Another advantage (to me) if a copy of current beta was avail via non-named files such as "cur" is that I'd not have to change the left panel of blog with new values each time an official bump occurs. I maintain a link to the two varants of betas there and have to remember to adjust them on each offical release.

graham · Post by **graham** » 30 Jul 2008 02:41

jc wrote:

Example using simulated vers nbrs: User is at 7.40.03, has a problem that is fixed in 7.40.05, but while away from Net/PC, vers is now up to 7.40.09 and it has an issue that would affect that user negatively. User is thus unable to get 7.40.05 and has to wait until 7.40.12 is available. But by having a minimal set of prior vers avail, user could determine from change logs that via "cur-2" would get him/her 7.40.05 in the interim.

your comments prompted me to have a go at amending my XY update script to also make backups and restrict the number to 5 - seems to work but I am a novice with scripting.

Code: Select all

//script to update XYPlorer version
"script to update XYPlorer to latest version"
	msg "update XYPlorer version",1;
	
//save current exe,ini & dat files to Backup folder and rename with date
	status "Backup current exe,ini&dat files";
	copyto "<xypath>\Backup\<date yyyy-mm-dd>", "<xydata>\*.ini|<xydata>\*.dat|<xydata>\*.exe";
	
//delete 5th oldest backup (if present)
	status "Delete 5th oldesd backup (if present)";
	goto "<xypath>\Backup";
	focus l;
	sel 5; sel -4;
	delete 1, 1, ":list";

//save current XYplorer settings
	#182;
	
//call a bat file to download new version &
//update XYPlorer.exe,.hlp.tipoftheday.htm files

	status "Call bat program and update XYPlorer";
	open C:\Program Files\XYplorer\autoupdate\update XYplorer.bat;

//end script

Note:
Before running the script for the first time the Backup folder needs 4 folders with prev date names to get things started - maybe a way round this but not yet found it!