Scroll issue, a bug perhaps, with explanation

[KieSeyHow]

Hello Don, and other interested parties!

I have been lurking for AGES on the forums, and I love the XYplorer application.
There is no other file manager that compares really (I think I have tried them all).

I have a really annoying issue that I hope the forum members and Don may help me with.

I use a Wacom graphics tablet for much of my work.
I use four monitors and I use a virtual KVM server called "Synergy" that allows one mouse and keyboard to control multiple systems much the same way a VNC application works to mimic the keyboard and mouse.

Now to the issue. As many of you know, most stylus pens or digitizer pens have no scroll wheel. If you have over one million files across several networked systems and multiple drives, you really need an effective scroll capability. Especially since I edit ebooks and code web-pages and manage servers over VPN and VNC connections.

I installed a nifty AWESOME little utility called DragToScroll v2.4. This is a compiled executable AutoHotKey script that basically emulates flick gesture scrolling across the entire Windows GUI without raising the X-Window level or giving a window focus in any application. This works anywhere you have scroll bars, a slider (volume, etc), or where arrow keys can be used to change a control. Just like the KatMouse utility does for the mousewheel (which works PERFECTLY in all controls on XYplorer I am thrilled to report). DragToScroll adds momentum like the iOS and Win8 touch features have. You HAVE to try it, you will be hooked. Not much use with a real mouse (use KayMouse) amazing for a touchpad or pen!

I map a Wacom-stylus-button as the middle-mouse-button (WheelButton) which then allows perfect flicking and inertial scrolling through large files, folders containing thousands of files, etc. This also emulates the smooth iOS and Win8 type of scrolling if you use a tablet over VNC and use your fingers to get around. It drastically improves the ability to VNC into a remote system with just a tablet by allowing your fingers, a stylus, or digitizer pen, to scroll any windows GUI control.

I use a pen, because if you have to copy and paste and edit code for hours and hours on end, a mouse can cause severe cramps, whereas a pen, does not seem to do that.

Yes, I could simply use a Mouse-Pen, but then I do not have the other features that the Wacom has. (I may look into that in the future actually)

DragToScroll does not work at all, in XYplorer. I cannot drag to scroll, or flick and scroll any of the controls in the program (except the embedded IE controls). I thought this software may give clues and reasons as to why the XYplorer seems to completely ignore the ScrollMessage and WheelMessage common API calls that this, or many other modern mouses (mice is only for animals), pens, or touchpads send to software to affect system-wide scrolling. Most other file managers I have tried seem to work, at least basically with DragToScroll, but XYplorer just completely ignores it no matter what I do.

XYplorer is by far the best file manager, file database, and search management system I have found to date.

The Wacom driver scrolling is useless, and dangerous to use! It is choppy and annoying, and even at max speed it barely moves. The Wacom tablet has multitouch features, which do work, but it is WAY too easy to move or drop files in the wrong place due to network lag, or because the driver does not carry well at all through VNC connections. Very bad idea to even try it on a folder with a few hundred subfolders and thousands of files (learned from experience). I think the code is just too bloated and uses too much bandwidth or something to work properly over VNC or a virtual KVM.

Incidentally Synergy, over VNC, with KatMouse installed on the target system works Perfectly with XYplorer to allow effortless scrolling of all GUI controls in the program, and the Windows GUI. So, whatever API KatMouse uses works perfectly.

After that detailed explanation, I merely hope for a way to allow the DragToScroll utility to reach through the XYplorer code to the basic Windows controls and hopefully work as with all other parts of the Windows GUI. I have a suspicion that if this can be solved, it may resolve any other scrolling issue that touchpads or touchscreens may have also with XYplorer. Yes, I did read all the old posts about Intellimouse around release-7 of XYplorer and how Don had to add a bunch of code to handle Logitech mouse drivers.

- Also, why when I middle click and drag in XYplorer I either get a transparent selection box (very weird) or I get a tiny popup message in a tooltip that informs me [Nothing To Paste]? I have never experienced this odd behaviour in any other application in Windows.
Is there some sort of hook, or setting that prevents the scrolling message to reach the XYplorer Mouse Engine? I have carefully disabled everything I can find that deals with middle click everywhere in the entire program!

Also, a related feature you may wish to add is a sticky list selection only on middle click to allow multiple separated list selections with a tablet or touchpad that has no keyboard available for holding the Ctrl key while left-clicking list items.

I am sorry for the long post, but I have scoured the forums and experimented with drivers, Windows, and mouse settings. The behaviour is only apparent in XYplorer, and nothing I can do improves it. Most of the experimenting I did, only resulted in losing functionality either in the general Windows GUI, or one or more of the other linked systems.

[admin]

You know, there are 3 things that I really hate in my job: network, drag+drop, wheel. For some reasons, these topics always mean trouble, of the nasty kind. The reason is probably that it's too hardware-affected. It leaves the clean and beautiful world of logic and enters the dirty hell of moving objects, cables, and electricity.

Of course, XY processes the Scroll and Wheel messages. Why does it not work for you? I don't know. I would have to buy your hardware to find out.

[KieSeyHow]

I am sorry Don... I am not trying to make your life miserable.

I was not clear. The behaviour is on a system that has NO HARDWARE. The Synergy software passes along the mouse coordinates like a VNC does to the system, emulating a mouse. Drag-to-scroll hooks ANY mouse middle-button click and drag call and modifies the data with inertial movement, and momentum, and making the call apply to wherever the cursor is hovering instead of only windows and controls with focus. The data seems to then pass along to the Video driver, which then passes it to the application, or whatever part of the GUI that the cursor happens to be hovering over. RButton is the default setting for DragToScroll, but that severely conflicts with all software features, so I changed it to MButton. I tried RButton but XPplorer still completely ignores the scroll request data from DragToScroll.

I guess a big question is if the XYplorer hooks the scrolling data, or middle click, or middle drag, for something else with the methods that DragToScroll uses, what is it and can I disable it?

My long and somewhat confusing post, tried to explain that the KatMouse utility does EXACTLY the same thing, and works perfectly with XYplorer. But, DragToScroll is ignored.

Why does DragToScroll work everywhere else, and with most other software, as does KatMouse? Is there an INI file setting, or a command that will stop XYplorer or is there a reason for interpreting the middle mousebutton as anything more than its default use. If this is the case, why does KatMouse work perfectly?

There is no actual mouse hardware in the mix, so it should be easily reproducible to see what is going on. I have practically no working understanding of software development, so please excuse any blatant aspects that may look like I am an idiot, or trying to annoy you.

DragToScroll is insanely configurable, KatMouse is not. So far, I have not managed to get DragToScroll to work at all in ZYplorer except for the obvious places like the embedded IE controls. It seems to work everywhere else I have tried in Windows, even most graphic editors (I use them often, hence the Wacom)

Also, what is the command that pops up on middle-doubleclick in the list view white space sometimes with a little tooltip that says "Nothing To Paste".
And, why does middlemouse-drag create a transparent selection box? Those two behaviours seem to be exclusive to the coding of XYplorer. I am thinking if those hooks can be shut off (I see no use for them), everything will work.
How does KatMouse seem to get around those features perfectly?

[admin]

XY does not use standard controls (aka Windows Common Controls), but custom controls that are totally unique. Everything they do has been hand-written by me, every single pixel that's drawn or moved is under my personal control and I know it by name. This means: If I disable a functionality then simply nothing will happen instead. There is nothing to fall back to. XY is not an Explorer skin but a different beast, genetically unrelated but functionally similar.

Do you by any chance know what messages you are sending to XY? (WM_MOUSEWHEEL, WM_MOUSEHWHEEL, WM_VSCROLL, WM_HSCROLL?)

[KieSeyHow]

You know, there are 3 things that I really hate in my job: network, drag+drop, wheel. For some reasons, these topics always mean trouble, of the nasty kind. The reason is probably that it's too hardware-affected. It leaves the clean and beautiful world of logic and enters the dirty hell of moving objects, cables, and electricity.

Of course, XY processes the Scroll and Wheel messages. Why does it not work for you? I don't know. I would have to buy your hardware to find out.

Unfortunately, the keyboard seems to be going out of user interface these days. We are getting touchscreens and touchpads with multi-touch that emulate various mouse commands. I am assuming the mouse commands pools are mostly taken only from three API sets, Synaptics, Logitech, and Intellimouse. These seem to be the most commonly emulated ones at least.

You software is EXCELLENT, but it will require handling of these new devices. With the advent of tablets used extensively for VNC and remote management, the software will have to handle these to stay competitive. If the user cannot manipulate the GUI, then there is no workable system at all. I would say that the interaction between the most basic functions of moving about the screen might be the single most important feature to get perfect.

XYplorer software offers extremely advanced security features that most other programmers have not even heard about, like the Unicode redirection, and detecting Unicode files without the BOM. I wish you would add features to handle Alternate Data Streams as well.

I would say that most users have no idea how really powerful XYplorer is. It would actually take a week long training seminar to teach all the features .. lol

[KieSeyHow]

Do you by any chance know what messages you are sending to XY? (WM_MOUSEWHEEL, WM_MOUSEHWHEEL, WM_VSCROLL, WM_HSCROLL?)

I have uploaded a screenshot of all the settings. Maybe that will help?


I really hope that you do not think I am just trying to aggregate you. I just want to get this to work. Also, I am extremely curious why the KatMouse works perfectly, and DragToScroll does not. I think I will send links to these threads to the developers of both of those utilities, Perhaps they have never heard of your excellent file manager and will be hooked!

Here is the forum thread for this awesome utility.

http://www.autohotkey.com/board/topic/5 ... scrolling/

[admin]

I would not bet on the quick death of the keyboard. It will live as long as writing texts is of importance for many people. You cannot seriously do that on a touch screen. The real enemy is speech input. But that will take a while. ATM XY is not targeting the touchscreen crowd. It's also a question whether Windows will survive in the same pool as Android and Apple. So IMO it's a bit too early to care about multitouch support. Right now there is a LOT of people out there who would love to use XY if they only knew about it. Everybody here in the forum knows this. So from my POV caring about publicity is now much more important than multitouch.

[admin]

5 years ago I uploaded some testing apps that are still there for download:
http://www.xyplorer.com/download/Scroll ... Tester.zip
http://www.xyplorer.com/download/Scroll ... niffer.zip

You might try them with DragToScroll, maybe something interesting comes up.

[KieSeyHow]

I would not bet on the quick death of the keyboard. It will live as long as writing texts is of importance for many people. You cannot seriously do that on a touch screen. The real enemy is speech input. But that will take a while. ATM XY is not targeting the touchscreen crowd. It's also a question whether Windows will survive in the same pool as Android and Apple. So IMO it's a bit too early to care about multitouch support. Right now there is a LOT of people out there who would love to use XY if they only knew about it. Everybody here in the forum knows this. So from my POV caring about publicity is now much more important than multitouch.

Yes, I completely agree with you. I think that for real work on a computer, it will be a long time until we have a system as reliable as a keyboard.

I do not like touch screens, unless they are on small hand-held devices, and even then I greatly prefer a stylus or pen since I find my fingers get in the way of what I am looking at. Also, it is a joke to try and type a document more than a couple of paragraphs with a touchscreen.

I think that a wireless keyboard with a trackball, optical tracker or multi-touch pad is probably the most effective control device that most people will be readily able to use and use efficiently.

The Speech recognition software is making great headway, but while it may work for chat or email, once you start manipulating blocks of text or working with any sort of code, you will very quickly throw up your hands in frustration and go back to a keyboard. It is a content consumption interface, not a content creation system.

Most of the new "popular" gadgets are really little more than fads, like Windows RT or iOS; pathetic excuses for a real operating systems. The technology scene is changing fast, and the proven technologies have yet rise to the top and stay there. The old systems of keyboards and mice (pens are BETTER) will always be there to do the REAL work until something completely different takes root.

I honestly do not see speech control or an equitable interfaces taking off until there is some sort of system-wide intellisense process completion type of UI to fill in the massive capability holes left by the lack of an effectual interface.

[KieSeyHow]

5 years ago I uploaded some testing apps that are still there for download:
http://www.xyplorer.com/download/Scroll ... Tester.zip
http://www.xyplorer.com/download/Scroll ... niffer.zip

You might try them with DragToScroll, maybe something interesting comes up.

Thank you, I will experiment with them and let you know if I find anything significant.