XYplorer Beta Club

nas8e9 wrote:

admin wrote:Thanks for the support, guys!

I just did some looking around at atelco and now I'm spoiled concerning the box: I MUST have the Coolermaster CM690!

Would this work?:

Code: Select all

1  Box:       Coolermaster CM690                         76,63 €  76,63 €
1  Processor: AMD Athlon II X2 240 Box, Sockel AM3       50,50    50,5
1  MainBoard: Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3H, AMD 785G, ATX    80       80
1  RAM:       4096MB-KIT Corsair XMS2 PC8500, CL5       109      109
1  HD 1:      Samsung HD103UJ 1TB 32MB SATA II           86,33    86,33
1  HD 2:      Samsung HD322HJ, 320GB, 16MB               47,53    47,53
1  DVD-RW:    LG GH22NP20 schwarz bare                   27       27
                                                           Total 476,99

Seems like a nice and roomy case that does come with both a front and a rear cooling fan included but *not* with a power supply. One option would be the Xilence Power 500 Watt / SPS-XP500.(12) (EUR 29,90).

Plenty of expansion possibility with both the motherboard and the case!

Oh, yes, thanks for the tip.

500W? I don't think.

Even upgrading to a bigger CPU, and adding some graphic-card ("non-gamer") should never reach 400W max. So I think 500W is too much.

I don't find info about the efficiency of those units. For someone using his PC for hours every day, this saves money! (And it feels good to be a bit of green ) So I would try to find a device with 80plus-certificate.

Example: (10% difference at 200W are 20W.)
So: 10 Watt * 10 hours * 350 days are 35kWh, each 20ct are 7€ per year.
How many years will you use it? You can vary every factor as you wish...

PeterH wrote:500W? I don't think.

Even upgrading to a bigger CPU, and adding some graphic-card ("non-gamer") should never reach 400W max. So I think 500W is too much.

I don't find info about the efficiency of those units. For someone using his PC for hours every day, this saves money! (And it feels good to be a bit of green ) So I would try to find a device with 80plus-certificate.

Example: (10% difference at 200W are 20W.)
So: 10 Watt * 10 hours * 350 days are 35kWh, each 20ct are 7€ per year.
How many years will you use it? You can vary every factor as you wish...

Ok Green grass is also on XY's homepage. This seems to fit the design:
Xilence Power ECO 450 Watt / SPS-XP450.(12)G --- 41,90 €
http://www3.atelco.de/articledetail.jsp ... 1&agid=240

PeterH wrote:500W? I don't think.

I'm not into hardware very much but from the conversations I've heard on web, 500W should nowadays be barely enough...don't get too little and regret it later as power consumption of parts keeps going up...I'd verify total rqmts of any/all parts to double-chk...

j_c_hallgren wrote:

PeterH wrote:500W? I don't think.

I'm not into hardware very much but from the conversations I've heard on web, 500W should nowadays be barely enough...don't get too little and regret it later as power consumption of parts keeps going up...I'd verify total rqmts of any/all parts to double-chk...

You are right - especially with request for verification. (I wouldn't be glad if this leads to problems )

But: people talking about power are people with gaming PCs. Biggest CPUs and overclocking. Expensive 3d graphic card - best 2 of them. 1000W no problem...
Don has a CPU with 65W TDP - that is it will use max 65W if working on 100% busy.
No graphic card. So Mainboard does graphic - will use a bit more than without. Lets say 100W? (I find no info for this )
Some 10W for RAM, HDs, DVD, fans, USB, LAN. Did I forget something?
Together no 300W. (Rounded up! )
OK: next year or so a new CPU, graphic (switch off graphic an mainboard) 400W max
(Remember: this is peak! Idle it's much less than 200W!)
So I think, 450W will be quite enough.

Most time CPU is idle. If power supply falls under ~25%, it's efficiency begins to fall...

So Don: please verify at Atelco - but 450W is enough.

A few words on my buying thoughts - all probably wrong but....
power supply - you can be extra cautious but no need unless you have a large graphics card that burns energy, the cpu is a known entity on power consumption and in my case I have i860 and 350w ps but a basic graphics card and will be unlikely to hit > 50%.

Now, the decision about virtuliasation - this is one I spent a long time on and in the end although the cpu I have does have virtulisation I opted for win7 premium which does not. Why, well the prof version costs more and sitting next to my new win7 system is my winxp. I understand the setup is not that straight forward. So far, I have found no programs that will not run under 64bit emulation and so I really wonder if it is worth the worry, unless, again you want to be over cautious. I did however go for 6GB memory, if you have 64bit then you want to exploit this aspect and memory is as cheap as I think it might ever be (said that years ago and was wrong!).
The thing here is not to lose sight of what the machine is for - development work does not demand too much of the processor but having fast disks and large capicity pay off - in the case of grahics you need a basic card only unless fudoku gets rewritten!

That all said I know little about machine configuration but in my case I had no cash restriction so just went for fast cpu, mem and disk capacity - I can't ever imagine playing games but I do a lot of photo raw processing and drawing 3d stuff and that needs memory and cpu power.

Coming back to this. Atelco actually recommended 550 Watt.

However, currently I'm inclined to go the virtualization way first (because it would cost me weeks to get a new Win7 system in workable shape). Just to make sure: Using Microsoft Virtual PC on XP SP3, can I run a virtual Win7/64???

admin wrote:Coming back to this. Atelco actually recommended 550 Watt.

In the long term, I'd recommend no less than 800W PSU and a branded one, not generic

admin wrote:However, currently I'm inclined to go the virtualization way first (because it would cost me weeks to get a new Win7 system in workable shape). Just to make sure: Using Microsoft Virtual PC on XP SP3, can I run a virtual Win7/64???

No, that is not possible. Virtual PC supports 64-bit host OS, but not guest OS. If you require 64-bit guest OS, I suggest you look at VMware.

admin wrote:Coming back to this. Atelco actually recommended 550 Watt.

That sounds reasonable. AFAIK, the efficiency of the power supply rather than its capacity dictates the actual power use. Ample headroom with an eye to future upgrades and/or expansion is always a good idea.

admin wrote:However, currently I'm inclined to go the virtualization way first (because it would cost me weeks to get a new Win7 system in workable shape). Just to make sure: Using Microsoft Virtual PC on XP SP3, can I run a virtual Win7/64???

MS Virtual PC comes in two versions, Virtual PC 2007 for Windows XP and Vista and Windows Virtual PC for Windows 7. Obviously, you'll need Virtual PC 2007.

Both versions only support 32-bit guest OS's, therefore 64-bit Windows 7 is out, I'm afraid. Regardless of virtualization solution, you'd need a 64-bit processor to run a 64-bit guest OS as well as, I believe, a 64-bit host OS.

Virtual PC 2007 should be able to host a 32-bit Windows Vista or Windows 7 installation. For performance reasons, you'd want at least 1 GB RAM *spare* as well as a separate HD (preferably either SATA or eSATA instead of USB or Firewire).

nas8e9 wrote:Regardless of virtualization solution, you'd need a 64-bit processor to run a 64-bit guest OS as well as, I believe, a 64-bit host OS.

The part in bold is not correct. You do not need to have a 64-bit host OS. Also, the reason for not supporting 64-bit guest OS (for now, anyway) is to allow legacy applications to run normally...just as an FYI

zer0 wrote:

nas8e9 wrote:Regardless of virtualization solution, you'd need a 64-bit processor to run a 64-bit guest OS as well as, I believe, a 64-bit host OS.

The part in bold is not correct. You do not need to have a 64-bit host OS. Also, the reason for not supporting 64-bit guest OS (for now, anyway) is to allow legacy applications to run normally...just as an FYI

Do you know whether VMware and/or VirtualBox support running a 64-bit *guest* OS on a 32-bit *host* OS? I seem to remember one of them has this, but I can't find it at the moment.

nas8e9 wrote:Do you know whether VMware and/or VirtualBox support running a 64-bit *guest* OS on a 32-bit *host* OS? I seem to remember one of them has this, but I can't find it at the moment.

I'm not sure about VirtualBox, but VMware definitely supports 64-bit *guest* OS on a 32-bit *host* OS. As long as hardware (CPU) support 64-bit that is...

zer0 wrote:

nas8e9 wrote:Do you know whether VMware and/or VirtualBox support running a 64-bit *guest* OS on a 32-bit *host* OS? I seem to remember one of them has this, but I can't find it at the moment.

I'm not sure about VirtualBox, but VMware definitely supports 64-bit *guest* OS on a 32-bit *host* OS. As long as hardware (CPU) support 64-bit that is...

Cheapskate question: that applies to the (free!) VMware Player as well? (I do try to search for these things, but VMware's website is not terribly forthcoming.)

zer0 wrote:

nas8e9 wrote:Do you know whether VMware and/or VirtualBox support running a 64-bit *guest* OS on a 32-bit *host* OS? I seem to remember one of them has this, but I can't find it at the moment.

I'm not sure about VirtualBox, but VMware definitely supports 64-bit *guest* OS on a 32-bit *host* OS. As long as hardware (CPU) support 64-bit that is...

I have AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual (1GB RAM). So that's ok I assume (if I add another GB of RAM).

@nas8e9: Why is a USB disk not enough, just because of speed?

nas8e9 wrote:Cheapskate question: that applies to the (free!) VMware Player as well? (I do try to search for these things, but VMware's website is not terribly forthcoming.)

Yes, as long as you use VMware Player for personal, non-commercial purposes