Single-pane mode

[admin]

Done. (slightly differently but works nicely)

Nice work! Now if you would please be kind enough to nudge up the height of tabs when in [Toolbar & Tabs] layout with large TB buttons the world can be right again. Otherwise, it's just wasted space

Hmm, you mean the Single-pane mode ? ... not sure what you mean (hey, it's saturday night...) -- got a screenshot?

[zer0]

Hmm, you mean the Single-pane mode ? ... not sure what you mean (hey, it's saturday night...) -- got a screenshot?

Yep, in SP mode. Screenshot is below...As you can see, when large icons are enabled, the tabs' height only goes about 2/3 of a way to the title bar rather than filling all the space that's provided. This leaves a fairly hefty area clicking in which does absolutely nothing = waste

tabs_area.png

[admin]

Hmm, you mean the Single-pane mode ? ... not sure what you mean (hey, it's saturday night...) -- got a screenshot?

Yep, in SP mode. Screenshot is below...As you can see, when large icons are enabled, the tabs' height only goes about 2/3 of a way to the title bar rather than filling all the space that's provided. This leaves a fairly hefty area clicking in which does absolutely nothing = waste

tabs_area.png

But you cannot win any useful space be nudging them up. You will just end up with weird looking tabs...

[zer0]

But you cannot win any useful space be nudging them up. You will just end up with weird looking tabs...

By nudging them up, I meant increasing their height so they go all the way up to the title bar save for a pixel or two. Useful space will be gained because tabs' clickable area will increase. Their content (icon + caption) can still be centred along the vertical like it is now. Since one can have TB and tabs on the same row, I do see it as logical that tabs' height increases accordingly -- higher for large TB buttons, lower for smaller ones. Also, cast your mind to the future when TBs will be bigger than 24x24. Increasing height of TBs will make that row "fatter", but tabs' height will stay unchanged making clickable area smaller than unclickable?

[TheQwerty]

When the menubar is hidden, how you get it back? (when you forgot the keyboard shortcut)

Every implementation I've seen has Alt Up show & focus the menu bar and then hide it again when it loses focus or a selection is made.
You could also show it when the mouse hovers at the top.

Done. (slightly differently but works nicely)

Err.. completely differently, and entirely my fault for not being more clear. I meant Alt on keyup, not Alt+Up. And I've actually seen some that show it on Alt keydown temporarily.

That said I'm not planning on hiding my menu, so your way is acceptable to me.

[admin]

When the menubar is hidden, how you get it back? (when you forgot the keyboard shortcut)

Every implementation I've seen has Alt Up show & focus the menu bar and then hide it again when it loses focus or a selection is made.
You could also show it when the mouse hovers at the top.

Done. (slightly differently but works nicely)

Err.. completely differently, and entirely my fault for not being more clear. I meant Alt on keyup, not Alt+Up. And I've actually seen some that show it on Alt keydown temporarily.

That said I'm not planning on hiding my menu, so your way is acceptable to me.

LOL! But as it happened Alt+Up was free and I think it's not even such a bad default choice. I had tried Alt on keyup some months ago but there were invincible problems with the focus...

[TheQwerty]

LOL! But as it happened Alt+Up was free and I think it's not even such a bad default choice. I had tried Alt on keyup some months ago but there were invincible problems with the focus...

Not that you should necessarily go back and change it but here's Microsoft's User Experience Guidelines for Hiding menu bars (emphasis mine):

Hiding menu bars

Generally, toolbars work great together with menu bars because having both allows each to focus on their strengths without compromise.

* Hide the menu bar by default if your toolbar design makes having a menu bar redundant.
* Hide the menu bar instead of removing it completely, because menu bars are more accessible for keyboard users.
* To restore the menu bar, provide a Menu bar checkmark option in the View (for primary toolbars) or Tools (for secondary toolbars) menu category. For more information, see Standard menu and split buttons.
* Display the menu bar when users press the Alt key, and set input focus on the first menu category.

Oddly enough, the last point shows up in the guidelines for Toolbars but not for Menus.

[admin]

LOL! But as it happened Alt+Up was free and I think it's not even such a bad default choice. I had tried Alt on keyup some months ago but there were invincible problems with the focus...

Not that you should necessarily go back and change it but here's Microsoft's User Experience Guidelines for Hiding menu bars (emphasis mine):

Hiding menu bars

Generally, toolbars work great together with menu bars because having both allows each to focus on their strengths without compromise.

* Hide the menu bar by default if your toolbar design makes having a menu bar redundant.
* Hide the menu bar instead of removing it completely, because menu bars are more accessible for keyboard users.
* To restore the menu bar, provide a Menu bar checkmark option in the View (for primary toolbars) or Tools (for secondary toolbars) menu category. For more information, see Standard menu and split buttons.
* Display the menu bar when users press the Alt key, and set input focus on the first menu category.

Oddly enough, the last point shows up in the guidelines for Toolbars but not for Menus.

Thanks but I would find it strange to show the menu everytime I press Alt. One should not take MS too serious anyway when it comes to usability -- Vista...

[TheQwerty]

Thanks but I would find it strange to show the menu everytime I press Alt. One should not take MS too serious anyway when it comes to usability -- Vista...

Those guidelines apply to Windows 7 as well, and frankly I've been using Vista for the last year and it really isn't that bad.

I don't think it would be that annoying, you'd need a delay before showing it so as not to have the jarring affect when the user pushes an assigned shortcut key, but I think it's less frustrating than having to push a shortcut key just to show/hide the menu bar (turning the process into 3 key sequences instead of 1).

[zer0]

...One should not take MS too serious anyway when it comes to usability -- Vista...

*Reluctantly puts that worm can opener back in the draw*

[admin]

1. I'll check that ALT thing...
2. I get thanking letters from users for saving them from the Vista usability experience almost daily...

[jacky]

1. I'll check that ALT thing...

Quick thoughts of mine on this "hiding the menu" thing: it's very nice. I won't use it myself cause I got other stuff in there, but it's a good addition. However, I definitely think it should be adjusted a bit...

The onKeyUp-Alt way is I feel mostly so that users can find/get to the menu bar very easily, as that is the usual way to go there, even when it's visible. I wouldn't mind another way of doing it, but as TheQwerty said, having to use a KS to show, then afterwards a KS to hide again goes against the whole idea.

Another way to go, one thing that would be a good idea I think, would be to offer a new feature (that could be used as KS or CTB) that would popup the main menu. As in, a popup menu containing (as submenus) File, Edit, View... Again, just so that with one KS (or one click) one gets access to the main menus, without the need to re-hide afterwards or anything.

[admin]

Another way to go, one thing that would be a good idea I think, would be to offer a new feature (that could be used as KS or CTB) that would popup the main menu. As in, a popup menu containing (as submenus) File, Edit, View... Again, just so that with one KS (or one click) one gets access to the main menus, without the need to re-hide afterwards or anything.

Technically near to impossible unfortunately.

[TheQwerty]

Another way to go, one thing that would be a good idea I think, would be to offer a new feature (that could be used as KS or CTB) that would popup the main menu. As in, a popup menu containing (as submenus) File, Edit, View... Again, just so that with one KS (or one click) one gets access to the main menus, without the need to re-hide afterwards or anything.

I agree, and it's neither a replacement nor something you probably haven't already done:

Code: Select all

/********************
**	FILE
********************/
"&File : File_MENU"		Load("*", "_100;_120;_150;-;_160;_176;_161;_162;-;_154;-;_169;_172;_155;-;_173;_174;_177;-;_180;-;_190;_191;_192;");
"To Cl&ipboard : _100"		#100;
"Re&name Special : _120"		#120;
"Move/Copy/Backup &To : _150"		#150;
"&Open Selected Item(s) : _160"		#160;
"Open &with... : _176"		#176;
"Open with &Arguments... : _161"		#161;
"Open &Focused Item : _162"		#162;
"Dupli&cate : _154"		#154;
"&Delete : _169"		#169;
"Rena&me : _172"		#172;
"File &Special : _155"		#155;
"&Properties : _173"		#173;
"Pre&view : _174"		#174;
"&Quick File View : _177"		#177;
"Setti&ngs : _180"		#180;
"&Restart without Saving : _190"		#190;
"Exit wit&hout Saving : _191"		#191;
"E&xit : _192"		#192;

/********************
**	EDIT
********************/
"&Edit : Edit_MENU"		Load("*", "_203;_204;_205;-;_200;_201;_202;_210;-;_220;_221;_222;-;_225;-;_230;_240;-;_265;-;_260;_261;_262;_263;_264;");
"&Undo : _203"		#203;
"Re&do : _204"		#204;
"Action &Log... : _205"		#205;
"Cu&t : _200"		#200;
"&Copy : _201"		#201;
"&Paste : _202"		#202;
"Paste &Special : _210"		#210;
"&Move To... : _220"		#220;
"Co&py To... : _221"		#221;
"&Backup To... : _222"		#222;
"Compa&re : _225"		#225;
"&New : _230"		#230;
"New &Items : _240"		#240;
"S&elect : _265"		#265;
"&Find Files... : _260"		#260;
"Find No&w : _261"		#261;
"Re&peat Last Search : _262"		#262;
"Show All Items In Branc&h : _263"		#263;
"Se&arch Templates... : _264"		#264;

/********************
**	VIEW
********************/
"&View : View_MENU"		Load("*", "_300;_360;-;_510;_470;-;_480;_481;-;_488;_482;_483;_484;-;_485;_486;_487;-;_490;-;_500;");
"Current &Tab : _300"		#300;
"&Columns : _360"		#360;
"&Mini Tree : _510"		#510;
"Folder &View Settings : _470"		#470;
"&Auto-Refresh : _480"		#480;
"S&uspend Auto-Refresh : _481"		#481;
"L&ock Tree : _488"		#488;
"Re&fresh Tree : _482"		#482;
"Refresh Curre&nt Folder : _483"		#483;
"Re&build Tree : _484"		#484;
"&Refresh File List : _485"		#485;
"Refresh and Re&set File List : _486"		#486;
"Calculate Folder Si&zes : _487"		#487;
"Sho&w Items : _490"		#490;
"Cac&hes : _500"		#500;

/********************
**	GO
********************/
"&Go : Go_MENU"		Load("*", "_520;_535;_521;-;_522;_523;_524;_525;_526;-;_527;_528;_529;-;_539;_530;_538;-;_531;_532;_533;-;_534;_536;_537;");
"Go to &Previous Location : _520"		#520;
"Go to Previous &Item in List : _535"		#535;
"Go to Last Targ&et : _521"		#521;
"&Top : _522"		#522;
"&Up : _523"		#523;
"Do&wn : _524"		#524;
"Breadcru&mb... : _525"		#525;
"Dri&ves... : _526"		#526;
"Bac&k : _527"		#527;
"Fo&rward : _528"		#528;
"Histor&y... : _529"		#529;
"Re&cent Locations... : _539"		#539;
"H&otlist... : _530"		#530;
"Ta&blist... : _538"		#538;
"&Go to... : _531"		#531;
"Go to from &Here... : _532"		#532;
"Go to &Line... : _533"		#533;
"Go to &Application Folder : _534"		#534;
"Go to Application &Data Folder : _536"		#536;
"Go to &Scripts Folder : _537"		#537;

/********************
**	FAVORITES
********************/
"F&avorites : Favorites_MENU"		Load("*", "_550;_551;_564;-;_566;_567;_568;-;_569;_570;-;_860;_879;-;_880;");
"Favorite Fol&ders : _550"		#550;
"&Special System Folders : _551"		#551;
"Favorite Fi&les : _564"		#564;
"Toggle &Favorite Folder : _566"		#566;
"Toggle &Highlighted Folder : _567"		#567;
"Toggle B&oxed Branch : _568"		#568;
"Set Highligh&t Color... : _569"		#569;
"Set Bo&x Color... : _570"		#570;
"T&ags : _860"		#860;
"Last Tag : _879"		#879;
"Co&mment... : _880"		#880;

/********************
**	USER
********************/
"&User : User_MENU"		Load("*", "_656;-;_1;_2;_3;-;_4;_5;_6;-;_8;_7;-;_9;_10;");
"&Manage Commands... : _656"		#656;
"&Go To : _1"		#1;
"&Open : _2"		#2;
"Open &With : _3"		#3;
"&Move To : _4"		#4;
"&Copy To : _5"		#5;
"&Backup To : _6"		#6;
"&New : _8"		#8;
"&Rename : _7"		#7;
"R&un Script : _9"		#9;
"Loa&d Script File : _10"		#10;

/********************
**	SCRIPTING
********************/
"&Scripting : Scripting_MENU"		Load("*", "_750;_752;-;_751;_753;");
"&Step Mode : _750"		#750;
"&Try Script... : _752"		#752;
"Load Selected Script &File : _751"		#751;
"&Load Script File... : _753"		#753;

/********************
**	TOOLS
********************/
"&Tools : Tools_MENU"		Load("*", "_600;_601;-;_602;_603;_604;-;_390;_400;-;_610;_639;");
"C&onfiguration... : _600"		#600;
"Ope&n Configuration File... : _601"		#601;
"Customize &Keyboard Shortcuts... : _602"		#602;
"Customize Tool&bar... : _603"		#603;
"Customize &File Associations... : _604"		#604;
"Customize Tr&ee : _390"		#390;
"Customize L&ist : _400"		#400;
"&List Management : _610"		#610;
"Tool&s Special : _639"		#639;

/********************
**	PANES
********************/
"&Panes : Panes_MENU"		Load("*", "_800;_801;_802;-;_803;_804;-;_805;_806;");
"&Dual Pane : _800"		#800;
"&Horizontal Panes : _801"		#801;
"Toggle &Active Pane : _802"		#802;
"&Move to Other Pane : _803"		#803;
"&Copy to Other Pane : _804"		#804;
"Mo&ve Tab to Other Pane : _805"		#805;
"C&opy Tab to Other Pane : _806"		#806;

/********************
**	WINDOW
********************/
"&Window : Window_MENU"		Load("*", "_660;_661;_662;-;_663;_668;_664;_686;-;_665;_685;_666;_667;-;_680;-;_690;");
"Show &Address Bar : _660"		#660;
"Show T&oolbar : _661"		#661;
"Show Ta&bs : _662"		#662;
"Show &Navigation Panel : _663"		#663;
"Show &Tree : _668"		#668;
"Show &Catalog : _664"		#664;
"Catalog Abo&ve Tree : _686"		#686;
"Show Info &Panel : _665"		#665;
"&Wide Info Panel : _685"		#685;
"&Last Size/Minimize Info Panel : _666"		#666;
"&Maximize/Minimize Info Panel : _667"		#667;
"Layo&ut : _680"		#680;
"Tab&s : _690"		#690;

/********************
**	HELP
********************/
"&Help : Help_MENU"		Load("*", "_700;-;_701;_704;-;_702;_705;-;_703;-;_710;-;_725;-;_726;");
"&Contents and Index : _700"		#700;
"Help on &Keyboard Shortcuts : _701"		#701;
"Help on &Scripting Commands : _704"		#704;
"Keyboard Shortcuts on &Menu : _702"		#702;
"Make &List of Functions... : _705"		#705;
"&Tip of the Day... : _703"		#703;
"XYplorer on the &Web : _710"		#710;
"&Update Registration Details... : _725"		#725;
"&About... : _726"		#726;


"-"
"as of v8.80.0205||4"

[zer0]

2. I get thanking letters from users for saving them from the Vista usability experience almost daily...

That doesn't make Vista/Win 7 UX bad as a whole, it just means that it is unsuitable for those users for one reason or another

Re: TheQwerty post -- this is a good way to consolidate menu bar functions and only display those which are needed as a menu of a single button. This idea is advancing aggressively with web browsers and office applications