XYplorer Beta Club

Cool, thanks.

admin wrote:Well, since Vista/Win7 Microsoft can not be taken serious anymore as a guide in UI design. IMO. I'm playing with Win7 now for a couple of months -- a complete disaster!

Sorry Don, but you and I are in complete disagreement over this. Perhaps it's because you've been "playing" with Win7 in a virtual environment for only a couple of months. I have been using it as my desktop's main OS for over a year and as my laptop's OS for months. This heavy usage has led me to appreciate the enhancements that were done to make it a more productive-to-use OS.

You say that Microsoft cannot be taken serious any more when it comes to UI design. Did you know that during Win7's development cycle Microsoft gathered huge amounts of telemetry about users' usage patterns? They did lots of studies, including those that watched people's use over long periods of time ("heat maps" spring to mind), surveys, focus groups with various constituencies and analysis of 1,000s of desktop screenshots. All this data paid off.

Telemetry showed that a lot of users arranged their windows side-by-side to work on 2 items at the same time. Previously, it was inefficiently time-consuming to place 2 windows side-by-side ala Dual Pane. In Win7, drag a window to one side of the screen, it sticks. Same for the other window and you have 50/50 divide of the desktop space. Two easy gestures and the job is done.

Taskbar received an overhaul in favour of big iconic buttons with no labels (configurable though). Clearly a step towards using touch interactions that are present on many devices such as smart phones and tablets. Simply hovering over a taskbar button of an open application will show thumbnails of windows (if grouped) or tabs (if said application made use of new rich APIs). Click a thumbnail and you will switch to that window/tab. As a result of new APIs, developers can customise context menus of their taskbar buttons through a feature called "Jump Lists". If XYplorer were to use those APIs, we could potentially have MRU list, Catalog items and other things users may want to access with a single click.

"Libraries" is a feature that has been hailed as one of Win7's best. Without having a complex database backend, Libraries provide virtual folder aggregation with customisable viewing styles. You can show thumbnails of images in one library, of PDFs in another and "Details" view where music files are collected. These capabilities are extended to many Win7 applications. WMP no longer needs to watch folders, it can just use your library(-ies) of choice as source(s) of content. Just a shame that we won't see integration of Libraries into XYplorer until 2012 at the earliest.

Overall, UI design in Win7 couldn't be further from a "complete disaster" Yes, it is a significant change from XP, but a lot of things change in 8 years, especially for the better. Humans are the most adaptable creatures on Earth, so it is in our blood to adapt to changes. To pick from a plethora of available case studies, Baker Tilly said they actually expect to make revenue gains thanks to productivity increases of Win7. Not too bad for a "complete disaster", is it?

P.S. Enjoy your Chilli Con Carne

zer0 wrote:This heavy usage has led me to appreciate the enhancements that were done to make it a more productive-to-use OS.

You say that Microsoft cannot be taken serious any more when it comes to UI design.

Overall, UI design in Win7 couldn't be further from a "complete disaster" Yes, it is a significant change from XP, but a lot of things change in 8 years, especially for the better. Humans are the most adaptable creatures on Earth, so it is in our blood to adapt to changes.

Speak for yourself...I have only used Win7 very briefly but in that short time, I found it looking a bit too much "Apple" like...as a matter of fact, I'm still having trouble adapting to XP from my trusty W2K so as far as adapting to change, I'm NOT one who does that easily!

I'm having real trouble finding a browser as easy to use as ole IE6...I have IE7 on my XP sys and while it's not that bad, the location of some taskbar icons is rather lousy AFAIC.

j_c_hallgren wrote:Speak for yourself...I have only used Win7 very briefly but in that short time, I found it looking a bit too much "Apple" like...as a matter of fact, I'm still having trouble adapting to XP from my trusty W2K so as far as adapting to change, I'm NOT one who does that easily!

I'm a huge fan of Windows 7 myself in three areas: 64-bit (also available in Vista and to an extent in XP, and pretty much required when doing things like Photoshop or virtualisation), the taskbar (the ability to pin shortcuts, Aero peek, etc.) as well as the much *smoother* performance compared to Vista. Windows 7's caching also makes it *feel* faster on the whole, than XP even on 7-year old hardware. There are also a host of smaller improvements, both UI and non-UI.

Having said that, there are small but annoying bugs in both IE8 as well as Windows Media Player. As for Windows Explorer in its default configuration, well...

In all, a lot has indeed changed between XP and 7. I think it an improvement on balance and after some time getting used to it, but possibly more for non-UI reasons.

I'm having real trouble finding a browser as easy to use as ole IE6...I have IE7 on my XP sys and while it's not that bad, the location of some taskbar icons is rather lousy AFAIC.

I'm not sure whether you mean IE's command bar, status bar or Windows's Taskbar? IE's command bar can be customised with the exception of the back and forward buttons which are always part of the address bar and left-aligned and thus removed from the other navigation buttons which are on a lower bar and right-aligned, which is indeed different from IE6.

Also, IE8 is considered better and faster (though still not in the same league as Firefox and Chrome) than IE7. If IE is your main browser, I would consider upgrading: the UI hasn't changed much between 7 and 8 so that shouldn't cause even more upheaval. IE9 won't be made available for XP when released, by the way. As a Firefox fan, I'd recommend that (it has all the navigation buttons in and before the address bar like IE6) but participating in a OS discussion is hazardous enough without entering a web browser discussion...

nas8e9 wrote:

j_c_hallgren wrote:I'm having real trouble finding a browser as easy to use as ole IE6...I have IE7 on my XP sys and while it's not that bad, the location of some taskbar icons is rather lousy AFAIC.

I'm not sure whether you mean IE's command bar, status bar or Windows's Taskbar? IE's command bar can be customised with the exception of the back and forward buttons which are always part of the address bar and left-aligned and thus removed from the other navigation buttons which are on a lower bar and right-aligned, which is indeed different from IE6.

The one icon I use very often that is now WAY out of the way in IE7 is the "Refresh"! It's all the way over at end of AB...not convenient at all!

Here's an old 2009 screenshot of how I prefer my IE6 to look: And I've tried FF...don't like that at all! It's the worst one I've run into...but other just love it...well, that's why there is variety! I use Opera 9.64 also...yes, an old vers but the newer one doesn't have the look I need.

Anyway, this is a bit OT but just trying to point out that some of us old-timers like the old stuff that we've gotten used to!

j_c_hallgren wrote:Anyway, this is a bit OT...

Point taken.

...but just trying to point out that some of us old-timers like the old stuff that we've gotten used to!

If it ain't broke... Change can be very expensive in more ways than one.

To state the obvious, it's difficult. In effect, XYplorer somehow has to straddle Windows 2000 to Windows 7, with Microsoft - influenced by other parts of the IT universe - changing a lot of things in between. In that context, confining oneself to the wording of a dialogue box seems strangely soothing...

j_c_hallgren wrote:Speak for yourself...I have only used Win7 very briefly but in that short time, I found it looking a bit too much "Apple" like...as a matter of fact, I'm still having trouble adapting to XP from my trusty W2K so as far as adapting to change, I'm NOT one who does that easily!

JC, I am not just speaking for myself, but for 240+ million Win7 licensees as well. As to the "Apple-like" remark, Jobsian boffins have been pioneering portmanteaus of productivity and aesthetics for a number of years. I'm sure that some of Microsoft's design decisions have been influenced by sheer ubiquity of Cupertino's devices.

Without a doubt, certain groups of people find adapting to change more challenging than others. However, this fact shouldn't reflect negatively on how good the productivity and UX features are in it.

zer0 wrote:

j_c_hallgren wrote:Speak for yourself...I have only used Win7 very briefly but in that short time, I found it looking a bit too much "Apple" like...as a matter of fact, I'm still having trouble adapting to XP from my trusty W2K so as far as adapting to change, I'm NOT one who does that easily!

JC, I am not just speaking for myself, but for 240+ million Win7 licensees as well...

Come on, the quantity of sales does not correlate very strongly with the quality of a product.

admin wrote:

zer0 wrote:

j_c_hallgren wrote:Speak for yourself...I have only used Win7 very briefly but in that short time, I found it looking a bit too much "Apple" like...as a matter of fact, I'm still having trouble adapting to XP from my trusty W2K so as far as adapting to change, I'm NOT one who does that easily!

JC, I am not just speaking for myself, but for 240+ million Win7 licensees as well...

Come on, the quantity of sales does not correlate very strongly with the quality of a product.

With regard to the quality, do you mean the UI-side of Windows 7? I do agree that Windows Explorer in particular has deteriorated along with other built-in apps. The big saving grace to me however, is that Windows 7 *as a pure OS* is of much higher quality than Vista and by now, even XP. Its performance and stability (especially compared to Vista... ) are better, its task management through the taskbar is better, its attempt at file management through libraries with search closely integrated is at least credible. Finally, it makes 64-bit computing the preferred option or at least marks that occasion.

From a marketing perspective, Windows 7 had to be better than Vista; the combined advances of Vista and Windows 7 do indeed make Windows 7 the best Windows version, even over XP. Not perfect; certainly different from previous versions, with its associated cost. Still, to me Windows 7 is the version to beat.

nas8e9 wrote:

admin wrote:

zer0 wrote:

j_c_hallgren wrote:Speak for yourself...I have only used Win7 very briefly but in that short time, I found it looking a bit too much "Apple" like...as a matter of fact, I'm still having trouble adapting to XP from my trusty W2K so as far as adapting to change, I'm NOT one who does that easily!

JC, I am not just speaking for myself, but for 240+ million Win7 licensees as well...

Come on, the quantity of sales does not correlate very strongly with the quality of a product.

With regard to the quality, do you mean the UI-side of Windows 7? I do agree that Windows Explorer in particular has deteriorated along with other built-in apps. The big saving grace to me however, is that Windows 7 *as a pure OS* is of much higher quality than Vista and by now, even XP. Its performance and stability (especially compared to Vista... ) are better, its task management through the taskbar is better, its attempt at file management through libraries with search closely integrated is at least credible. Finally, it makes 64-bit computing the preferred option or at least marks that occasion.

From a marketing perspective, Windows 7 had to be better than Vista; the combined advances of Vista and Windows 7 do indeed make Windows 7 the best Windows version, even over XP. Not perfect; certainly different from previous versions, with its associated cost. Still, to me Windows 7 is the version to beat.

OK, I cannot really say anything about Windows 7 *as a pure OS*. I have been primarily focussing in the Win7 Explorer from a user perspective, and if this is the Explorer to beat then the job is easier than ever.

admin wrote:OK, I cannot really say anything about Windows 7 *as a pure OS*. I have been primarily focussing in the Win7 Explorer from a user perspective, and if this is the Explorer to beat then the job is easier than ever.

The best base OS enabling the best apps. Sounds too good to be true somehow, but regarding WE v. XYplorer it's good news .

A couple of things to say about the these changes: a) It's bad that there is no alphabetical grouping, the drop-down list looks messy as overwrite, suffix and affix options are mixed like a Caesar salad. Affix should be at the top, followed by Overwrite and then Suffix.

b) An even better approach would be to refactor them into 2 side-by-side drop-down lists: one to choose from Affix, Overwrite and Suffix and another to drill down into details. The lists would look much tidier with this liner approach.

In both underlined words above, it should be "Suffixes" and "suffix" respectively as they would go after the base name.

zer0 wrote:

suffix_templates.PNG

In both underlined words above, it should be "Suffixes" and "suffix" respectively as they would go after the base name.

Not necessarily.

While correct for the default of "*-<date yyyymmdd>", the user (like myself) can also use "<date yyyymmdd>-*" making it a prefix.

As the date can be either, it is correctly named "affix", and since they both do not have to be suffixes, it would be incorrect to refer to the group of options by something other than "affixes".

TheQwerty wrote:Not necessarily...

Yep, I see your point. I blame the snow for blurring the line for me