XYplorer Beta Club

admin wrote:BTW, Ctrl+Click on blank area does not deselect in my version of XY...

Yes, you're right -- and neither does Ctrl+rectangle. But there is a major difference : we are holding Ctrl, and can release it to unselect (in a single click) any time we want. In Sticky mode, we obviously don't have any key to release. So there should be a way to unselect, and it seems to be more natural that a rectangle selection would be sticky, while a simple left click would unselect.

jacky wrote:

admin wrote:BTW, Ctrl+Click on blank area does not deselect in my version of XY...

Yes, you're right -- and neither does Ctrl+rectangle. But there is a major difference : we are holding Ctrl, and can release it to unselect (in a single click) any time we want. In Sticky mode, we obviously don't have any key to release. So there should be a way to unselect, and it seems to be more natural that a rectangle selection would be sticky, while a simple left click would unselect.

I agree about the rectangle selection but a simple left click should not unselect in sticky mode, because that would defeat the whole sticky idea where I want to be safe from unwanted loss of selections, and a simple white left click is easily done by misadventure...

If I may add my humble opinion, I wouldn't want a single click to deselect a sticky selection. I also discovered if I select a few items in the SS mode (olvais talking 'bout ze vor and ze vor, ja? ) and then right-click on another not-selected item, to check out its properties for suitability to overall sticky selection perhaps, then it'll be added too, which I did not desire. Therefore, I think right-clicking should not be a valid way of adding to the SS.

zer0 wrote:If I may add my humble opinion, I wouldn't want a single click to deselect a sticky selection. I also discovered if I select a few items in the SS mode (olvais talking 'bout ze vor and ze vor, ja? ) and then right-click on another not-selected item, to check out its properties for suitability to overall sticky selection perhaps, then it'll be added too, which I did not desire. Therefore, I think right-clicking should not be a valid way of adding to the SS.

Select is select, sticky is sticky. You cannot have a context menu without selection.

admin wrote:Select is select, sticky is sticky. You cannot have a context menu without selection.

Sure, but is it not possible to discard the selection once an item from the context menu has been selected or the menu itself has been discarded? Since the available columns do not exhaustively report a file's properties, it's a bit of a bind to not be able to see them without adding to the overall selection.

zer0 wrote:

admin wrote:Select is select, sticky is sticky. You cannot have a context menu without selection.

Sure, but is it not possible to discard the selection once an item from the context menu has been selected or the menu itself has been discarded? Since the available columns do not exhaustively report a file's properties, it's a bit of a bind to not be able to see them without adding to the overall selection.

One further click will unselect it. Come on...

admin wrote:One further click will unselect it. Come on...

Yes, I noticed that. However, calling "Properties" context menu on an individual file (not in the selection that was done already) won't work, because properties of the whole selection plus that file will be returned. Is that an unfortunate side effect that we'll have to bite the bullet on?

zer0 wrote:

admin wrote:One further click will unselect it. Come on...

Yes, I noticed that. However, calling "Properties" context menu on an individual file (not in the selection that was done already) won't work, because properties of the whole selection plus that file will be returned. Is that an unfortunate side effect that we'll have to bite the bullet on?

You can work something out using scripting with the new property() function + POM...

admin wrote:I agree about the rectangle selection but a simple left click should not unselect in sticky mode, because that would defeat the whole sticky idea where I want to be safe from unwanted loss of selections, and a simple white left click is easily done by misadventure...

Okay, but then how about "invert" things a bit, and say that in Sticky mode, Ctrl+left click on empty area on List does unselect. That way one can still unselect nicely, while still being safe from an unwanted loss of selection ?

jacky wrote:Except that under Edit are no options, but actions (Select All/None/Invert/Filter...), whereas List Style as some actual options, like Sticky Selection. So it does seem to make sense, doesn't it?

Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that Sticky Selection is not something I'd ever want tied to FVS. My opinion of SS is that it's something I'd turn on, use, and then turn off, which makes it more of a mode (or extension of an action) than an actual option. It's not something I'd want to change based on the path, and I definitely find it disorienting that each tab/pane can be in a different selection mode.

jacky wrote:I would say that I'd expect Sticky to pretty much prevent me from holding Ctrl, but behave the same. So a single click on a blank area should deselect, while drawing a rectangle should not and also be part of the "sticky selecting" process.

I agree the rectangle should select, but like Don disagree with deselect.

You're right on the fact that SS mode should essentially be the same as just holding Ctrl the entire time, but maybe we need to think of it a step further and consider that SS mode should invert Ctrl's meaning. Hence with SS mode enabled any Click(+Drag) is the same as a normal Ctrl+Click(+Drag), but also any Ctrl+Click(+Drag) becomes the same as a normal Click(+Drag).

The previous behavior has a Click on blank space deselect, but a Ctrl+Click leaves the selection unchanged. With SS mode on it should be a Click on blank space leaves the selection unchanged, but a Ctrl+Click deselects.

This also means that in SS mode a Ctrl+Click on an item would select only that item, just like a Click in regular mode.


That said, I'm coming at this without any preconceptions or experience of similar modes in other applications, so maybe there are established and expected behaviors that I'm not familiar with.


EDIT: Damn all of you for posting and coming to the same conclusion as I was typing this! Or is it damn me for being so wordy?

Inverted Ctrl: I like the idea.... almost! Two problems with it:

1) context-dependent inverted functionality is generally a usability nightmare; it can't sink down to your body knowledge level because your always need to think before you click/press.

2) i'd like to preserve the currently unused Ctrl+Click on white space for CEA!