2nd pane, anyone?

Orson · Post by **Orson** » 01 Nov 2006 17:24

I want to again raise the suggestion of adding a 2nd list pane to XY, and see how others feel. I've emailed Donald privately, and he indicated that he'd like to hear other people's responses to the idea.

One way this could be implemented is to make it a switch-off-and-on feature like the info panel at the bottom -- and perhaps replacing the info panel. It could display a reduced amount of info. I would probably use it mainly when I want to copy or move files and gain an additional level of validation/verification for the copy or move function.

Conceivably, I would switch on the 2nd mini-pane, mark it as "Destination." Then press Ctrl+F7, and the first option would be to copy or move to "Destination Pane." Something like that. When I was done, I'd switch it off and go back to the single pane for most other work.

Any thoughts on this idea?

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 01 Nov 2006 17:46

Yet another dual pane thread? Ok....Well, the only time I find that I truly require a dual pane setup is when I'm manually comparing/sync'ing two folders...and in that case, having the Info Panel to verify what a file contains would be crucial, IMO.

If I could maybe split the list area into two horizontal 'bands' to see both folders, so that I'd have the top third as folder 1, the middle third as folder 2, and the bottom third as IP, and ONE tree that reflects the currently active folder, then I'd be absolutely delighted!

My analogy to single vs dual is that given the task of comparing two drawers of a file cabinet, but with the restriction of only one drawer being open at a time...yes, it's possible to do it, but one would need to either take notes of whats in drawer 1 and/or 2 , or more efficiently, take the drawers out of cabinet so one can see both side by side...to do it with only one being visible at a time would extend the time required to complete the task by, I'd guess, about 3-4 times at least..

Plus, having some sort of a dual pane feature, even limited, could make XY desirable by a number of users that otherwise would pass it up...

lukescammell · Post by **lukescammell** » 01 Nov 2006 17:50

I don't use dual panes, but I can't see what the problem would be with having it as an option. Provided it doesn't slow down XY or add too much bloat, is there a good reason why it *shouldn't* be added? I mean it can be off by default.

Also, why would we need to get rid of the info panel if we have dual pane? I'd still want to have the info panel... the option to have the dual pane as vert or horiz would also be a nice option IMO.

John Bee · Post by **John Bee** » 01 Nov 2006 17:53

Look at this free filemanager, it has what I think is the way Don could do it. Just put another tab with a listview in the F12 area.

http://www.primitus.us/a43/

John
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surrender · Post by **surrender** » 01 Nov 2006 17:59

If at all there will be a dual pane then, I agree on most parts of what jc says. Also, It should not replace the current features we have now, like jc pointed out info panel is quite needed in this case.

More ideas until Don drops by.

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 01 Nov 2006 18:00

Addendum: Possible keeping the tab headers as they are, and column titles also, but putting a split line in the list area so that we would maximize the amount of list detail visible would be a good thing...and when you were in that sub-area of the list, the tab header would then toggle to the correct one for that sub-area portion...

Right now, I show 24 1/4 lines of detail above my IP...having 12 on each with a split taking the 1/4 space would work fine...and making a very slight tint (user defined) to the background of the currently inactive sub-area would make keeping track of which one is 'live' easier.

Not sure how one would best activate or cancel this option...

lukescammell · Post by **lukescammell** » 01 Nov 2006 18:35

Just using a "standard split window" to go dual pane is one option, keeping the one tree view. Just need one horiz and one vert, as I tend to use most of the horizontal space on a 1600×1200 screen and could find a use for the horiz split.

How about a simple toolbar button to tggle dual pane?

I don't like the look of that A43 I'm afraid.

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 01 Nov 2006 18:58

Even though it's a nice day here on Cape Cod, and I should be working to close my place up for winter, I just spent some time creating a mockup JPG of what I described above...I'm not very good at using Photoshop Elements, and I did it in a hurry but it should help show what I envisioned....

(Click to enlarge)

Any comments on this mockup?

(BTW, the pix shown is from my neighborhood showing some Halloween decororations)

Fedorov · Post by **Fedorov** » 01 Nov 2006 21:47

Yup j_c, your analogy is pretty much the same as my cupboard version I posted in the other dual-pane thread

I've already said to Don that I'd certainly buy XYplorer if it had dual-pane and some of the folder synchronization features of TotalCommander - you can only have some of those cool features if you've got dual-panes visible you see

Oh... and if you all didn't know, TotalCommander v7 beta 1 came out today, you can now have a tree view down the left which will control either of the dual-panes, or you can have it in just one of the panes, or you can have the tree view in BOTH panes, some interesting new stuff in here for Don to erm borrow maybe

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 01 Nov 2006 22:53

Fedorov, the reason I created an analogy with a minor difference is that in order to simply move or copy items, it's usually possible to do it with single pane, as we know from Win Expl (but having dual makes it easier, I'll agree in some cases)...but...to compare/sync, I've found that it's almost impossible to do so with only one pane...and having two sessions going is NOT an acceptable substitute as one can't swap just between them easily, especially when one has various other windows open also!
At least Win 3.1 file manager allowed a somewhat split screen session, and I miss that oldie but goodie!

That's the primary reason I went looking long ago for a dual pane product, and found xplorer2 lite/free, which solved that need...it was the need to find files by exact time that led me to XY...

I've suggested using a single tree as a solution simply because I presume it would make coding easier, and having "half a loaf" is better than "no loaf" in this case....

Creat · Post by **Creat** » 01 Nov 2006 23:27

I gotta say I don't ever need a dual pane, and I think it would be at least problematic to 'control' them both with just the one tree (having more than one tree would be worse though). Unless the marker, that shows the selected folder in the tree corresponds somehow intuitively (marker color same as background color of the corresponding pane) it would probably be bad. Even if there are color indicators, how do you know which pane changes if you left click in the tree? simply the last one that was active? I'm pretty sure that would be confusing somehow...

What I do like as an Idea is to have - like some suggested - another tab in the IP similar to the one from John Bee's link (4th post in this thread, there's a screenshot on the page on the upper right). This wouldn't be a fully qualified pane like the "main" one, but rather display important places like favourites or highlighted folders selecteable form a submenu or (like in the screenshot) generated buttons. You could have a temporary location displayed by right-clicking some folder and selecting "show in IP List" or something. This would be a nice use for the IP actually (I currently use it only for searching).

As for syncing 2 folders I'd suggest a dialog window (or another IP tab) to do so, where you can select two folders and some options to have it done automatically. Implementing this in a way to really make it easy for users is probably a lot of work (synchronized scrolling of two listviews, maybe even spaced so that files existing in both folders always line up and so on). There are probably specialized tools out there just for that, especially if you want to have some way of considering the contents of the files. Just try WinDiff or have a look at this. I think implementing something to that extent would be total overkill for a filemanager.

bye
Creat

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 02 Nov 2006 00:24

Creat wrote:I gotta say I don't ever need a dual pane, and I think it would be at least problematic to 'control' them both with just the one tree. Unless the marker, that shows the selected folder in the tree corresponds somehow intuitively (marker color same as background color of the corresponding pane) it would probably be bad. Even if there are color indicators, how do you know which pane changes if you left click in the tree?

Don't want to dominate this thread, but feel the need to reply to this posting..

As I've stated previously, I've been using a form of dual pane managers for about 20 years, so if you don't need/use dual pane, you may not 100% fully understand my problem...or what I might be willing to accept as compromise...that's NOT at all to say your input doesn't count, just that you may not fully see my point of view....thus...having one tree would work just fine with me, as a color indicator would be more than plenty to tell me which is area is active and would follow the tree...a matching marker would be helpful, but not required...

I was used to having to see what part of screen was active on a monochome monitor simply by highlighted text, so color is a bonus!

Creat wrote:What I do like as an Idea is to have - like some suggested - another tab in the IP similar to the one from John Bee's link. This wouldn't be a fully qualified pane like the "main" one

Unless I have a complete list area, with all details of files available, it wouldn't do me much good...and that's why I suggested showing two sub-areas of list, using matching columns and displays...

Creat wrote:As for syncing 2 folders I'd suggest a dialog window (or another IP tab) to do so, where you can select two folders and some options to have it done automatically. Implementing this in a way to really make it easy for users is probably a lot of work (synchronized scrolling of two listviews, maybe even spaced so that files existing in both folders always line up and so on). There are probably specialized tools out there just for that, especially if you want to have some way of considering the contents of the files. I think implementing something to that extent would be total overkill for a filemanager.

Auto sync is yet another step beyond dual pane, and something that I don't think is as critical now...and yes, scrolling both together would be a somewhat necessary thing, but I could live without it for a while...
I already use other tools for major syncing, but for the casual use, I'd LOVE to be able to do so in XY! Remember that other file managers have these features and I don't think it's overkill, but having FTP, as example, to me IS overkill for a file manager.

John Bee · Post by **John Bee** » 02 Nov 2006 02:05

j_c_hallgren wrote:
Creat wrote:What I do like as an Idea is to have - like some suggested - another tab in the IP similar to the one from John Bee's link. This wouldn't be a fully qualified pane like the "main" one
Unless I have a complete list area, with all details of files available, it wouldn't do me much good...and that's why I suggested showing two sub-areas of list, using matching columns and displays...

Actually, A43's secondary list is a fully qualified listview with file counts etc. It is a real dual pane file manager. He just hides this second pane in the "Info Panel" of his, along with other goodies.

John
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Gandolf · Post by **Gandolf** » 02 Nov 2006 07:11

Just emphasising a couple of points:
Vertical / Horizontal split necessary for long file names to see the name and other columns without the need to scroll horizontally.
Don't replace the Info Panel - one of XY's many excellent features.
I like j_c_hallgren's idea of a split in the list area. Although it doesn't allow different columns / sort order per pane, I don't see that as any great disadvantage.

One suggestion I haven't seen in the discussion (but could have missed). Replace the tree with the other pane, similar to the way TC does it - it replaces the pane with the tree. Without the tree there would still be plenty of ways of navigating the folder structure anyway.

Following the TC idea, the tree controls the navigation in the other pane. If the left pane is "swapped" for the tree the folder location in the tree would be that of the right pane. Navigation could then be done in the tree (just as at present) which could then be swapped back to display the left pane. This would need to apply to both panes. Since the entire pane structure would need to be remembered (tabs, filters, sort order...) it may require remembering too much information to be practical (only Donald can know if that is the case). I hope I've made my idea clear!!

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 02 Nov 2006 08:50

Gandolf wrote:Vertical / Horizontal split necessary for long file names to see the name and other columns without the need to scroll horizontally.

I like j_c_hallgren's idea of a split in the list area. Although it doesn't allow different columns / sort order per pane

Thanks for the vote!
And, even in the current single pane, long file names can be an issue so I don't see any difference here...can you explain how it would be, please? As I keep my name column just wide enough to handle 95% of my files and use the hover to see full name of those that don't fit, thus avoiding the wasted space for a horizontal scroll bar.

Also...I now agree/realize that having a second set of column headers just below the list area split line would thus allow much more flexability, but at the loss of one line of detail...which I'd willingly give up! So when you look at my mockup, just imagine it as such, ok?