Reviewed by dual pane freak

Statler · Post by **Statler** » 19 Oct 2006 16:30

I think, XY shouldn't annoy the user who's trying to evaluate. So I guess a nag screen when starting XY is enough.

But after the 21 days, it could remind (nag) the user by displaying a message box every now and then, e.g. after a random number of operations or after a random time.

I'd find a recurring nag screen annoying enough to buy XY, if I hadn't done so already (after trying it for one hour or so).

Post by **admin** » 19 Oct 2006 22:07

Statler wrote:I think, XY shouldn't annoy the user who's trying to evaluate. So I guess a nag screen when starting XY is enough.

But after the 21 days, it could remind (nag) the user by displaying a message box every now and then, e.g. after a random number of operations or after a random time.

I'd find a recurring nag screen annoying enough to buy XY, if I hadn't done so already (after trying it for one hour or so).

One might think so, but I know from experience that it is different. Crippling (beyond a nag screen) is absolutely essential if you want to sell. Psychology: It's not so much about punishing the non-payers, but about giving something to those who pay. It's just so much more fun to pay if you get something back for your hard-earned money. You just feel stupid to waste a bullet for something that's already dead -- sorry, where did that metaphor come from? I should not read to many reviews about my app...

allen · Post by **allen** » 19 Oct 2006 23:29

admin wrote:
Statler wrote:I think, XY shouldn't annoy the user who's trying to evaluate. So I guess a nag screen when starting XY is enough.

But after the 21 days, it could remind (nag) the user by displaying a message box every now and then, e.g. after a random number of operations or after a random time.

I'd find a recurring nag screen annoying enough to buy XY, if I hadn't done so already (after trying it for one hour or so). :D
One might think so, but I know from experience that it is different. Crippling (beyond a nag screen) is absolutely essential if you want to sell. Psychology: It's not so much about punishing the non-payers, but about giving something to those who pay. It's just so much more fun to pay if you get something back for your hard-earned money. You just feel stupid to waste a bullet for something that's already dead -- sorry, where did that metaphor come from? I should not read to many reviews about my app... :wink: :lol:

Reminds me of my registered copy of winzip back in the mid to early 90's . . . what really made me mad, though, was their alleged lifetime license -- which recently changed. One of a dozen people who actually paid for the application and what do I get in return? A change of zipper apps, that's what :D

Fedorov · Post by **Fedorov** » 20 Oct 2006 10:56

Hi all,

As discussed a few days ago via email with Don, I'm coming from the dual-pane world of Total Commander and gave XYplorer a good test drive at the weekend but (as discussed) find it impossible to go back to a single pane view despite trying I think every method Don suggested of copying between source and destination. I'm a developer myself and use TC all day long and certainly to me it makes a HUGE difference being able to see the contents of BOTH source and destination when doing certain daily operations.

There were a few other vital TC features I suggested, but these again were more specific to dual-pane - i.e. TC lets me compare both panes and can instantly select all the file differences for me in both panes etc.....

Many moons ago in my Amiga days I used DirectoryOpus... when I eventually got to Win95 through to WinXP I was back on SINGLE-pane Explorer for a long time... now hear this..... I tried DirectoryOpus one day and hated the dual-pane, I tried TotalCommander and for some reason realised what I'd been missing by only having single pane - maybe it was just one of those things that just "clicks" and you suddenly get your head around the whole concept I don't know...
I FORCED myself to use XYplorer at the weekend, but the advantages of dual-pane (and some of TC's other features) meant no matter how hard I tried I just do not find it intuitive to drag/copy files onto a tab or category but not actually SEE them appear on the other side due to single-pane view.

My analogy is now... you have 2 cupboards in your room, you need to carry a box from one cupboard to the other...

Single-pane
Cupboard doors already open, I can see inside, pickup box, walk across to 2nd cupboard, put box down while I open 2nd cupboard doors so I can see what is inside... pick box up and put in cupboard.

Dual-pane
Cupboards doors already open on BOTH cupboards, pickup box, walk across to 2nd cupboard and put in cupboard.

Now talk sub-folders... in the dual-pane example if I wanted to put my box inside another box, I can already see there is another box (sub-folder) in the cupboard and just drop it straight in.

Interesting topic

Post by **admin** » 20 Oct 2006 12:59

Okay, this topic is a mixed salad now.

Anyway, concerning nagging: I decided to limit the number of simultaneous tabs (to 3 or maybe 4?). But I'm willing to hear your screams about this idea...

Fedorov · Post by **Fedorov** » 20 Oct 2006 13:29

admin wrote:Okay, this topic is a mixed salad now.

Anyway, concerning nagging: I decided to limit the number of simultaneous tabs (to 3 or maybe 4?). But I'm willing to hear your screams about this idea...

Not sure if that's a good enough "nag" tbh, most trial users in my opinion aren't likely to use a lot of tabs, especially if they are coming from Windows Explorer and aren't used to such functionality to begin with.

I can use tabs in both panes of my TotalCommander but hardly ever do due to already having the ability to view TWO locations at once...

All personal opinion I think but I find that if you really want to nag your trial users then the splash screen that counts down for 5 seconds before you can get in to use the application is most "annoying" to me - if I find the application useful I certainly want to purchase to get rid of this delay in my work!

Post by **admin** » 20 Oct 2006 13:51

Fedorov wrote:
admin wrote:Okay, this topic is a mixed salad now.

Anyway, concerning nagging: I decided to limit the number of simultaneous tabs (to 3 or maybe 4?). But I'm willing to hear your screams about this idea...
Not sure if that's a good enough "nag" tbh, most trial users in my opinion aren't likely to use a lot of tabs, especially if they are coming from Windows Explorer and aren't used to such functionality to begin with.

I can use tabs in both panes of my TotalCommander but hardly ever do due to already having the ability to view TWO locations at once...

All personal opinion I think but I find that if you really want to nag your trial users then the splash screen that counts down for 5 seconds before you can get in to use the application is most "annoying" to me - if I find the application useful I certainly want to purchase to get rid of this delay in my work!

Okay, what do others think of the countdown nag?

EDIT: BTW, I already have built in (but not activated yet) the possibility to limit the number of tabs to a certain, uh, number (where 0 (zero) means unlimited, as it is currently). Would that be an interesting option for anybody? Means: should I lift that to the configuration window?
If the limit is reached and a new tab is to be created by you or by some implied process, then the last (right-most) tab will be used for it. A bit like jacky's default tab...

allen · Post by **allen** » 20 Oct 2006 15:55

Ooh, this is an option I would use. I tend to manually continually purge tabs as I only like to have 3 or 4 open tops -- the fewer that are open, the more readable the tab bar is -- being able to force a limit would be cool. Then just grey it out in the unregistered version.

For example, I have two tabs always locked and open -- a flat list of all shortcuts in my start menu for quick acess to all applications and "My Documents" (home locked). These two tabs make accessing all my frequently used stuff a real breeze. Setting the limit at 4, I could maintain that I have two tabs for easy back and forth movement (2 pane style :P) while keeping it from getting cluttered with multiple tabs as I some times do. (Launching a new location from either locked tab makes a new tab, if I'm not paying attention they can really add up!)

Edit: Regarding after-expiration nagging, I don't think a simple nag is anywhere near sufficient. Totally crippling the application may be a bit much, enough to anger and drive off customers, but there needs to be a real compelling reason to register. Obviously not for all of us, but how many people do you know who paid for Winzip back when it could be used unlimited without paying? How about mIRC -- even the US Government uses it within their comms systems -- UNREGISTERED. Why? They can. Even if the bottom line isn't money, why bother to fill out a page or two of information when you can just click once and dismiss the nag?

What if, after the trial, the options were disabled. You can use it in full as you last configured it but beyond that you can't edit your settings again without registering (or getting your hands dirty in the ini). Or maybe disable other features that are more matters of convenience than absolute necessity -- color filters, favorites, individual list management, etc.

(For the record, I purchased both winzip and mIRC back in the day -- I've never met another registered user of either program but many, many, many who have used each for years -- not even noticing the nag. Nagging is -not- enough. Even a nag with an annoying numeric countdown may not be enough -- though certainly better than one that can be immediately dismissed.)

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 20 Oct 2006 16:24

Re: nagging : I had suggested a tab limit, but as stated, that may only affect some users...so thus as I also wrote, a small limit on number of favorites and catalog entries and/or colors might affect more casual users, but still give them a chance to try those features.

About startup delay timers: I've seen those implemented in various ways, including some that appear to add time (one second or so) for each day past the trial period...which for a commonly used appl, can really be enough of an annoyance to pay to kill it...

However, I have at least one pgrm that has a quite long but fixed time delay, and I put up with it, as I have chosen not (

) no pay because I only use it, at most, maybe once every two or three months so my cost per use would be way out of bounds...and I don't use it for any monetary gain either...so I look at it this way: I'm taking my 30 day trial period in hour increments over a longer time...maybe that's wrong but if I used it weekly or daily, then I'd think differently...but XY is an appl that most would use daily, if not hourly or less, so paying would be pretty much required to avoid inconvenience.

About tab limit as config: I don't believe I would like having a tab reused unless I had control over which one it was...to me, a default tab shold be marked in some way to indicate it's such, and I'd likely prefer having it as left-most tab, and not right, so I could still open/close 'work' tabs without affecting default.

Update:Found the thread about nbr of tabs and default: http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?t=950

avsfan · Post by **avsfan** » 20 Oct 2006 19:04

I think the countdown nag can work, though it would certainly be less effective for folks that leave it open for long periods of time. For example, I typically have 2 XY windows open, each with a bunch of tabs, and I they stay open either until I shut down, or load a new version of XY, so if I were not registered, the countdown nag would only bug me once (well, once per instance) every couple of days (or more).

I think that the countdown nag by itself is most likely not sufficient (or at least wouldn't be for me, based on the way I use it).

lukescammell · Post by **lukescammell** » 20 Oct 2006 19:37

I would rather see the first 21 days completely unlocked, just so you can try everything out really well. I find nothing more frustrating than not being able to use some of the touted features to their full extent during the trial period. Afterall, how can you tell if you're going to use these features if you can't try them fully? After the trial it should crack down hard.

1.) Time delay nag screen on open, that increases every day by a second.
2.) Lock the app after an hour, forcing a reload and hence 1) again.
3.) Reset to factory default settings on each load of the app. Ideally when it does this it would backup the settings you had been using previously so that should you purchase the program you don't have to set everything up once again. This could be mentioned in the Nag screen during the count down as an incentive

(Includes catalogue and ALL user settings.)
4.) Limit tabs to 3.
5.) Disable visual filters.
6.) Disable colour filters.
7.) Disable batch renaming.
8.) Enable all the features that make directory listing as slow as possible >=]

Just a few opinions

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 20 Oct 2006 20:27

lukescammell wrote:I would rather see the first 21 days completely unlocked, just so you can try everything out really well. I find nothing more frustrating than not being able to use some of the touted features to their full extent during the trial period.

2.) Lock the app after an hour, forcing a reload and hence 1) again.
3.) Reset to factory default settings on each load of the app.

I'm more inclined to go with a more typical limitations on what I can do...and then opening the door wide open once I've paid!

For example, (pretending to be a new user), I could tell if the catalog would be useful to me with, let's say, 5 entries...and once I got acquainted with the feature, I'd want to have more than that, thus incentive to buy...
Same with favorite folders, color filters, etc...

As Gandolf stated, regarding locking the appl...I've encountered that once and I was

since being a potential new user, but ended up being distracted by work, and then spending a lot of time trying to get acquainted with the appl during the few days past the trial, I quickly gave up on it and found another solution, which turned out to be freeware.

Doing a reset as suggested might be an option at the 30 day point, so a bit of a grace period is allowed...but it should make this VERY obvious during the preceeding days that this will occur! Remind user at least once a day if possible, even those who leave it running 24/7...

Post by **admin** » 20 Oct 2006 21:27

lukescammell wrote:I would rather see the first 21 days completely unlocked, just so you can try everything out really well. I find nothing more frustrating than not being able to use some of the touted features to their full extent during the trial period. Afterall, how can you tell if you're going to use these features if you can't try them fully? After the trial it should crack down hard.

Only: with INI-based apps it's so very simple to reset the trial period and get another 21 days completely unlocked. No, the crippling must be there from day 1.

Post by **admin** » 20 Oct 2006 21:44

After reading all the suggestions (thanks, everybody!) in this thread, my current plan is the following:
1. Initial nag screen (1 sec longer each day until 21 sec)
2. Tabs limited to 3
3. Image preview has "Trial Version" printed in top-left corner (as is already now)

Maybe limit audio/video preview to 1 minute.
Maybe somehow cripple find files...

zridling · Post by **zridling** » 20 Oct 2006 22:08

Let me share my experience of how I became a XYplorer nut. First, I'm never in favor of crippling the program during the trial period in any way for a good reason: how can someone — especially a reviewer — know what the program is fully capable of? Thus crippled trial versions bring about vengeful reviews because the user remembers the nags more than the program's finer features.

Second, I'd go further and extend the trial period to 25 or 28 days. XYplorer may be simple at first glance, but we all know it has many layers to explore and fall in love with. That's why you cannot spend an afternoon with XYplorer and then set out to write a review of it. Instead, you must immerse yourself with it and let the program win you over with its superior features (and coding).

Third, as a little Directory Opus freak, I needed time to compare and contrast the two programs. I'd take a set of features in DOpus and then go find out how XYplorer performed them by testing, playing, or reading the Help file. This took about a week because I had to overcome my prejudice of "DOpus is the best, period." At every comparison, XYplorer surprised me and my "Wows!" kept getting louder and louder over time until finally I was convinced XYplorer was the better, faster, more efficient file management tool for me.

Had various limits been placed on that 5.00 version I was testing, I might have given in more quickly and stayed inside my comfort zone, never registering XYplorer and waiting until version 6 arrived to take a second look.