Stinky Selection (sorry, but I HATE that as it is!)

[SkyFrontier]

Pardon me, but I HAD to say that way. Hope you understand.
What sounded like a priceless tool went into a useless nightmare:
Having to sort some pictures and scrutinizing tons of offline XY forum pages, I guessed that Sticky Selection could come into play and make things easier. That's what happened:
-each time I select files and move them to other pane, a random file is selected on the source pane and included in the next selection - so I have to discover it first, click it to unselect, then start doing the new batch of selections. When it happens to move .htm files/ "_files" folders (the resulting set when saving offline out of Firefox), when an Undo is required it just moves back the .htm files, leaving behind their respective "_files" folders. So I have to go to the destination pane, select them, then moving them back to the source folder.
Also, when Undo is interrupted by a non-moveable (locked?) folder/file, Action Log does not registers that action as "undoable". And I guess that was already discussed and marked FIXED (as far as I can remember, I noticed the fix in its respective beta, can't remember which).
Ah! Sweet CTRL+F...

v8.50.0029 - 2009-10-28 11:46 * Undo: Now also partially aborted (= partially successful) actions are logged. Before, only actions without any abortions (user pressed "cancel" or "no" at some point during progress) were logged.

Well, it seems that it does NOT refer the above mentioned (locked files/folders) situation, so... Shoot-a-bug season!

[SkyFrontier]

...not a single word on this, so I assume that it's a "locked bug"...?
Any plans to it in the near future...?

[admin]

What is the bug? What do you do? What should happen? What does happen instead?

[SkyFrontier]

What is the bug?
-Sticky Selection auto selects unwanted files thus leading to a new selection added with an unknown file.
-When moving .html/"_files" folders (offline web pages saved by Firefox), undo moving of "_files" folder is not available.

What I do?
-I enable Sticky Selection, select a set of files and move them to the other pane.

What should happen?
-The files move to the other pane AND no file should be selected on source pane;
-if files happen to be Firefox offline pages, all .html/_files set of files should be logged
into Actions Log.

What does happen instead?
-A random file is auto selected. If (each and every time I need the feature!) I select a next set of files, that auto selected file is added to the selection without any notice.
-If I need to undo a moving of .html files, their respective "_files" folders are not moved along them, so I need to select those remaining "_files" folders and manually undo the move.

[j_c_hallgren]

The way you just described this makes this seem (to me) as two separate problems because I don't see how the "offline web pages/Action Log" issue relates strictly to 'sticky selection' as listed...or are you saying that this only occurs when used with that?

But also, I'm still a bit unsure as to exactly what you mean with the "offline web page" issue because if I save a webpage as 'complete' using name of (let's say) xyz, I get two things in the selected folder: 1) a xyz.htm file 2) a new xyz_files folder containing the jpg/gif/etc for that page...Are you saying that the move of the xyz_files folder when done to another pane doesn't get logged with sticky? Because when I move them via normal select, I can undo it just fine.

BTW, the '_files' folder is created not only by FireFox but also IE and Opera when saving a webpage.

[admin]

After a selected file is moved or deleted the list automatically selects the file that now takes the position of the one that's gone. I think that's standard behavior for such a list.

I admit that with Sticky Selection this can be a bit of a problem depending on your goals and work style. I'm not sure about the expected behavior here -- Sticky Selection is not such a common feature.

[j_c_hallgren]

In trying to test this, I'm finding something about Sticky Sel that makes it less than ideal for me and maybe why I never used it much:

If I do a normal select: select one item, scroll to 2nd item then hold Cntl while clicking it, I have both selected...I can then come back later and separately left click on either item and drag it wherever...fine...

If I do Sticky: once the 2nd item is selected, if I don't immediately do the drag as part of that very same click operation, when I then next left click it, it de-selects the 2nd item and I can't do the drag.

So how is that to my benefit? It's not. Having to pick the last item to be moved/copied and do the drag at exact same time isn't always how I function...sometimes I pick the items, then review what I've selected, and then do the drag as three separate operations.

Is there a better way to handle this that I'm not aware of?

[admin]

In trying to test this, I'm finding something about Sticky Sel that makes it less than ideal for me and maybe why I never used it much:

If I do a normal select: select one item, scroll to 2nd item then hold Cntl while clicking it, I have both selected...I can then come back later and separately left click on either item and drag it wherever...fine...

If I do Sticky: once the 2nd item is selected, if I don't immediately do the drag as part of that very same click operation, when I then next left click it, it de-selects the 2nd item and I can't do the drag.

So how is that to my benefit? It's not. Having to pick the last item to be moved/copied and do the drag at exact same time isn't always how I function...sometimes I pick the items, then review what I've selected, and then do the drag as three separate operations.

Is there a better way to handle this that I'm not aware of?

Agreed. Will be improved.

[j_c_hallgren]

Thanks! Now I'll definitely grant you that (in a normal select situation) once I release the left mouse button when I begin the drag function (that is, abort the drag), only the specific item I clicked on remains selected so I loose the other selections which ain't that great either...but when being so used to doing my 3-step mode, the way it works in sticky isn't much better as I have to keep clicking on an item which selects/deselects it before I remember that I have to do final select+drag in one step.

Addendum: What really needs to be tweaked, I think, is the difference between a click and a click+hold because a click+hold indicates a drag operation may be beginning but a quick click indicates a desire to toggle selection status, right?

[SkyFrontier]

admin:
After a selected file is moved or deleted the list automatically selects the file that now takes the position of the one that's gone. I think that's standard behavior for such a list.

I admit that with Sticky Selection this can be a bit of a problem depending on your goals and work style. I'm not sure about the expected behavior here -- Sticky Selection is not such a common feature.

Well, I only think on Sticky Selection in a very specific scenario that is the painful picking of files in long lists which make the scrolling a nightmare. So if I want only 10% of a list sorted in another folder, I need to be sure that "ONLY" what I select will go into that folder - that's why it's a BIG problem!
And thanks for your observation, Hallgren - I've narrowed the "files/_folders" problem and found:
-it also occurs in "normal" files list;
-when I select both "files/_folders" (keep in mind, there are tens of them each time!), action is correctly logged so it's undone as expected;
-when I select only "files", XY moves their respective "_folders" - but does not log those "_folders" so only the original "files" have their moving undone. WHICH IS EXPECTED, in XY logic - only the logic is broken in real world scenario, once I can undo moving in both PowerDesk/WinExplorer! Of course I'm not saying "hey, they are better!" I'm just saying that "hey, WE (us, not WinExplorer! lol) CAN DO BETTER!"

[j_c_hallgren]

-when I select only "files", XY moves their respective "_folders" - but does not log those "_folders" so only the original "files" have their moving undone. WHICH IS EXPECTED, in XY logic - only the logic is broken in real world scenario, once I can undo moving in both PowerDesk/WinExplorer!

Huh? Are you saying that (using my example) you selected xyz.htm only and not xyz_files yet it moved xyz_files? That's what you wrote in the first phrase (as italicized) above...because I've never seen that happen...an item that isn't selected being part of a move? Are you sure?

I'm sorry, but the last part after the "WHICH IS EXPECTED" doesn't make sense to me...I know at times my English isn't 100% perfect either plus we have some non-native speakers here so I try to follow/understand as best I can but that sentence has some issues.

[SkyFrontier]

Hallgren said:
Huh? Are you saying that (using my example) you selected xyz.htm only and not xyz_files yet it moved xyz_files?

Self quote:
...only the logic is broken in real world scenario, once I can undo moving in both PowerDesk/WinExplorer!

Yes, it was so natural when using either PowerDesk or WinExplorer that I thought it was a Windows feature itself, handling xyz.htm/xyz_files as a single file. It doesn't matter moving .htm or ._files, the companion will *ALWAYS* follow.

The annoyance is great, because moving around tens of files SELECTED out of hundreds in order to get all the stuff sorted gets harder than dealing with a couple of files: in case of a mistake, you promptly see that something went wrong. And you will only notice the difference when a future reference is required: too late, if a CD backup was done in the meantime with missing files/folders.

[j_c_hallgren]

I thought it was a Windows feature itself, handling xyz.htm/xyz_files as a single file. It doesn't matter moving .htm or ._files, the companion will *ALWAYS* follow.

OH! Since I can't recall before this test the last time that I ever moved these type of files, and when I did, didn't realize that they were linked so always selected both of them anyway...even in WE.

But...I just some more tests and even though XY doesn't show both items in the log and thus indicate that 2 items are involved, it DID undo both of them after doing the move by only selecting the xyz_files, and I was able to redo the move also with no problems....so it seems the link is implicit and thus doesn't need to show maybe?

[SkyFrontier]

...let's keep the .htm/html/_files problem stick to the Actions Not Being Logged for Undo, what about? (Currently being discussed there, anyway).

Hallgren:
But...I just some more tests and even though XY doesn't show both items in the log and thus indicate that 2 items are involved, it DID undo both of them after doing the move by only selecting the xyz_files, and I was able to redo the move also with no problems....so it seems the link is implicit and thus doesn't need to show maybe?

Yes, that's expected: logging 1 file but handling 2. But in fact is not what's happening and the only thing I suspect is the SOURCE of the files: mines are being generated by Firefox. What about yours? (See answer in the aforementioned topic! )

[j_c_hallgren]

the only thing I suspect is the SOURCE of the files: mines are being generated by Firefox. What about yours?

I can't see any connection with the source as I really don't believe that the copy examines any of the contents of the file to see what links are embedded but rather looks in same folder as the .HTM for a folder with that name suffixed by a "-files"...but anyway, mine were generated by FF, IE6 and Opera and all work just fine here.