Refresh vs Refresh and Reset

[jacky]

Question: what's the difference between those two features, Refresh List (F5) & Refresh and Reset List (Ctrl+F5), in terms of what XY actually does (to get updated/refreshed info) ?

Seems to me that there is none, and if that is indeed the case I'd like for that to change. I'm not exactly sure if this is a definite change in Win7 or some settings that can be changed somewhere, but it used to be, when say i have a file downloading, that sitting in that folder with Auto-Refresh on, I would see the file grow every second or so. And if that was "bothering" me I could just Suspend AR.

However now that doesn't happen anymore. Seems that Windows doesn't actually trigger the AR event, so even with AR enabled (and not suspended) I don't see anything happening. When the file is created an event occurs, and XY adds it to the list. But after that, while I can see it grow in the downloading app, nothing happens in XY as no AR events are triggered.

Much worse, as one can expect, pressing F5 to refresh the List doesn't do anything either, and the file stays empty: 0 byte. But it is not, it might be 100's of MB already and still growing, but I have no way of getting an update in XY. F5, Ctrl+F5, moving away & coming back, there's just no way to get XY to actually refresh things.

That seems to be because there is no "action" done onto the file itself, so nothing happens. But if I try to open the file for example, that will do the trick and XY will get an AR event & update the filesize.

In other file manager (I just tried Explorer & some random file manager I downloaded to test), the Refresh is not as fast & smooth as in XY, because they not only get an update of the list (folder content) but also ask for info of each & every item in said folder. It's extremely slow (especially when there are lots of items) and whatnot, but it does one thing : access the file, and as a result gets an up-to-date file size for the downloading file (which, btw, then triggers an AR event in XY).

Ideally I would like to find a way to get this (Windows) behavior to change, so I see the file grow constantly (and need to Suspend AR to prevent that), as it used to be the case before (XP). But as far as XY is concerned, I feel that there really should be a way to get an "actual" update/"full" refresh of the List.

So, while I don't think the Refresh (F5) feature should be changed, I'd like it if, for example, the Refresh & Reset (Ctrl+F5) would go the long road and ask for (updated) info of all items on List, and as such get me an updated file size for any downloading file.

[admin]

Since this works alright in XP, I cannot do much now. But Win7 will come to my home soon...

[jacky]

Since this works alright in XP, I cannot do much now. But Win7 will come to my home soon...

Well, about the AR you can't, but changing the Reset & Refresh is all up to you, and I'm sure there could other situations where having a "full" refresh could be helpful, in other OS as well. After all, this way of doing a refresh isn't new to Win7, Explorer does the same thing in XP... (it's just that the AR events are handled differently)

If the only difference between F5 & Ctrl+F5 is that the later scrolls up putting the focus on the first item (& dropping any selection) there's no real point of having two features, OTOH if it would actually do a more "complete" refresh to ensure every info is up to date, then the situation is quite different.
I actually thought it was already the case, and I have to say I was quite surprised (and frustrated) to find myself unable to get XY to refresh my folder, insisting on showing me info that could be hours old...

[admin]

Since this works alright in XP, I cannot do much now. But Win7 will come to my home soon...

Well, about the AR you can't, but changing the Reset & Refresh is all up to you, and I'm sure there could other situations where having a "full" refresh could be helpful, in other OS as well. After all, this way of doing a refresh isn't new to Win7, Explorer does the same thing in XP... (it's just that the AR events are handled differently)

If the only difference between F5 & Ctrl+F5 is that the later scrolls up putting the focus on the first item (& dropping any selection) there's no real point of having two features, OTOH if it would actually do a more "complete" refresh to ensure every info is up to date, then the situation is quite different.
I actually thought it was already the case, and I have to say I was quite surprised (and frustrated) to find myself unable to get XY to refresh my folder, insisting on showing me info that could be hours old...

But F5 does always show fresh information. If this does not work it is a problem under Win7.
Ctrl+F5 only scrolls up and removes selections. It has nothing to do with freshness of data.

[jacky]

But F5 does always show fresh information. If this does not work it is a problem under Win7.

Well, no, not in this case. As I said, to get fresh info you need to apparently access the file itself in this case, and a quick look with ProcessMon shows that other file managers do ask for info of each & every item in the folder, while XY limits itself to the one "global" call, one that isn't enough in that case. So other file managers do get fresh info, but not XY.

And, as I said, if I open that folder in Explorer, it will get fresh info (and XY will get an RA event/be able to update its info as well). Then, XY is stuck with those info, while any Refresh on Explorer does get an actual update/fresh info.

Ctrl+F5 only scrolls up and removes selections. It has nothing to do with freshness of data.

Right, which is why I suggested that maybe this could change and it could also do a "full/complete" refresh job, as done in other file managers, which takes longer (especially with many items) but get "fresher" info under certain conditions...

[admin]

But F5 does always show fresh information. If this does not work it is a problem under Win7.

Well, no, not in this case. As I said, to get fresh info you need to apparently access the file itself in this case, and a quick look with ProcessMon shows that other file managers do ask for info of each & every item in the folder, while XY limits itself to the one "global" call, one that isn't enough in that case. So other file managers do get fresh info, but not XY.

And, as I said, if I open that folder in Explorer, it will get fresh info (and XY will get an RA event/be able to update its info as well). Then, XY is stuck with those info, while any Refresh on Explorer does get an actual update/fresh info.

Ctrl+F5 only scrolls up and removes selections. It has nothing to do with freshness of data.

Right, which is why I suggested that maybe this could change and it could also do a "full/complete" refresh job, as done in other file managers, which takes longer (especially with many items) but get "fresher" info under certain conditions...

This would mean to completely rewrite a Refresh routine that works alright for many years now. I have to see this behavior before I can do that.

[jacky]

hmm... so did you silently change something in 0005? Cause now upon a simple Refresh (F5) ProcessMon shows that XY follows the query for the folder by one for each item in there, and XY does actually get the fresh/up-to-date info!

[admin]

hmm... so did you silently change something in 0005? Cause now upon a simple Refresh (F5) ProcessMon shows that XY follows the query for the folder by one for each item in there, and XY does actually get the fresh/up-to-date info!

Nope, did not do a thing. I guess your system had a hickup.

[jacky]

hmm... so did you silently change something in 0005? Cause now upon a simple Refresh (F5) ProcessMon shows that XY follows the query for the folder by one for each item in there, and XY does actually get the fresh/up-to-date info!

Nope, did not do a thing. I guess your system had a hickup.

My system, my system, how about your software!?

On a more serious note, I got it : the (other) difference with last time is that for the time being I enabled icon overlays (I don't always keep it on, but I've using it these days), and it turns out to be a side-effect of it. Upon a refresh and because XY asks for the icon overlays, a new batch of calls is done for each item in the current folder (not sure if it is by XY directly, or by TortoiseCVS) which also results in getting the updated dates/sizes (that's true for any folder, whether or not there are icon overlays).

Mystery solved. Also, I know that for now, having icon overlays allow me to get a "real/complete" refresh in XY...

[admin]

hmm... so did you silently change something in 0005? Cause now upon a simple Refresh (F5) ProcessMon shows that XY follows the query for the folder by one for each item in there, and XY does actually get the fresh/up-to-date info!

Nope, did not do a thing. I guess your system had a hickup.

My system, my system, how about your software!?

On a more serious note, I got it : the (other) difference with last time is that for the time being I enabled icon overlays (I don't always keep it on, but I've using it these days), and it turns out to be a side-effect of it. Upon a refresh and because XY asks for the icon overlays, a new batch of calls is done for each item in the current folder (not sure if it is by XY directly, or by TortoiseCVS) which also results in getting the updated dates/sizes (that's true for any folder, whether or not there are icon overlays).

Mystery solved. Also, I know that for now, having icon overlays allow me to get a "real/complete" refresh in XY...

I'm still buffled. F5 always does a complete refresh on my system. Could it be a painting issue? Try resizing the Window a little: this will repaint the list view without changing its contents. Does this help?

[jacky]

I'm still buffled. F5 always does a complete refresh on my system. Could it be a painting issue? Try resizing the Window a little: this will repaint the list view without changing its contents. Does this help?

Nope, doesn't help. It's not a painting issue, I resized the window, changed location, used VF, did a search, doesn't matter. But if the file gets accessed "directly" (depending on what file it is, an attempt to Preview it might (fail but) do the trick) then fresh data are out.

As I told you, I can see in ProcessMon that XY only does one API call on Refresh, and apparently that isn't enough (anymore, in Win7) to get freshed info. Okay, so not just one call, but this:

QueryOpen V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF SUCCESS CreationTime: 21/10/2007 19:16:48, LastAccessTime: 10/11/2009 14:20:17, LastWriteTime: 10/11/2009 14:20:17, ChangeTime: 10/11/2009 14:20:17, AllocationSize: 0, EndOfFile: 0, FileAttributes: D
CreateFile V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF SUCCESS Desired Access: Read Data/List Directory, Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Attributes: n/a, ShareMode: Read, Write, Delete, AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened
QueryDirectory V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF\* SUCCESS Filter: *, 1: .
QueryDirectory V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF SUCCESS 0: .., 1: New Textfile.txt
QueryDirectory V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF NO MORE FILES
CloseFile V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF SUCCESS
CreateFile V:\ SUCCESS Desired Access: Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Open For Free Space Query, Attributes: n/a, ShareMode: None, AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened
QueryFullSizeInformationVolume V:\ SUCCESS TotalAllocationUnits: 183 143 000, CallerAvailableAllocationUnits: 6 932 414, ActualAvailableAllocationUnits: 6 932 414, SectorsPerAllocationUnit: 8, BytesPerSector: 512
CloseFile V:\ SUCCESS

Updates for the folder, and the drive. But with icon overlays there's also one per item on the folder.

[admin]

I'm still buffled. F5 always does a complete refresh on my system. Could it be a painting issue? Try resizing the Window a little: this will repaint the list view without changing its contents. Does this help?

Nope, doesn't help. It's not a painting issue, I resized the window, changed location, used VF, did a search, doesn't matter. But if the file gets accessed "directly" (depending on what file it is, an attempt to Preview it might (fail but) do the trick) then fresh data are out.

As I told you, I can see in ProcessMon that XY only does one API call on Refresh, and apparently that isn't enough (anymore, in Win7) to get freshed info. Okay, so not just one call, but this:

QueryOpen V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF SUCCESS CreationTime: 21/10/2007 19:16:48, LastAccessTime: 10/11/2009 14:20:17, LastWriteTime: 10/11/2009 14:20:17, ChangeTime: 10/11/2009 14:20:17, AllocationSize: 0, EndOfFile: 0, FileAttributes: D
CreateFile V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF SUCCESS Desired Access: Read Data/List Directory, Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Attributes: n/a, ShareMode: Read, Write, Delete, AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened
QueryDirectory V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF\* SUCCESS Filter: *, 1: .
QueryDirectory V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF SUCCESS 0: .., 1: New Textfile.txt
QueryDirectory V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF NO MORE FILES
CloseFile V:\--- GPL.tmp\EPF SUCCESS
CreateFile V:\ SUCCESS Desired Access: Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Open For Free Space Query, Attributes: n/a, ShareMode: None, AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened
QueryFullSizeInformationVolume V:\ SUCCESS TotalAllocationUnits: 183 143 000, CallerAvailableAllocationUnits: 6 932 414, ActualAvailableAllocationUnits: 6 932 414, SectorsPerAllocationUnit: 8, BytesPerSector: 512
CloseFile V:\ SUCCESS

Updates for the folder, and the drive. But with icon overlays there's also one per item on the folder.

I come back to this when I have Win7. I still don't believe it. There must be something else going on.