herakles wrote:I just love XY! It's the first application I start on my PC and it usually stays open until I turn my computer off. It's stable, very fast, has a small footprint and does everything I need (although I have to confess that my mouth is watering if I see what great features are on your roadmap). It was the best buying decision I every made concerning software and I guess it's the main reason why I didn't already switch to linux. Thanks, Don for a great product, jacky for the wonderful wiki, jc and all the others for a great forum.
It appears that you're a satisified user but new to the forums, so I'll say welcome to the XY forums to you also, which I attempt to do as a habit...I try my best to make this a nice place to be since it's a large part of the reason that I like XY, and why those poor folks who use Mac's will never see how good we have it!
Other than required annual tax software to do my returns, XY is the only software that I've "purchased" in many years...I say in quotes because I came in under a prior license arrangement, and I've continued to donate on a regular basis because I think Don deserves the recognition.
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.
Not sure what you mean (I hardly use newer MS software). Are you talking about the "ribbon"?
Yes ribbon, sorry about that - type in a comment and no time to check correct terminology - I blame old age but really I do not help matters by confusion
I have only got to know the ribbon in MS Word. Like all change it takes time to adjust but the immediate view of options is quite appealing and they have also linked help as well - worth consideration if only to offer an alternative thought process.
admin wrote:Rather than having me try out X2 "in depth", I suggest you try out XY "in depth".
Suggestion totally accepted and warmly returned.
I am trying XY in depth (see for some of my remarks in blue about the menus functionality above). I am doing so with X2 in parallel (you can see my post the X2 forums). Both software represent much interest to me. It is a bit time consuming though, not to mention the REGEX I don't know well, as for the scripting part of XY (it will come at the end... of time )
Here is my answer about the good graphical (artistical?) XY GUI (see: http://www.xbeat.net/airport/index.htm), which is totally--and voluntarily--lacking on X2. And here is some info about license, dates and developers
About the general feedback to this thread. It is like I write in the post before:
The risk for a developer or a reduced team is to share a single vision and to lake the ability to step back to try different approaches. Yes, a forum is nice, but it often one way communication for support, or for blind followers to show their amazement (because they love the app and the developer through it), until they move someplace else.
admsupport wrote:The risk for a developer or a reduced team is to share a single vision and to lake the ability to step back to try different approaches. Yes, a forum is nice, but it often one way communication for support, or for blind followers to show their amazement (because they love the app and the developer through it), until they move someplace else.
I'll take the risk and say that: You haven't been on these forums long enough to know just how diverse the ideas of solving a problem or how heated the discussions can be here! Some of use other products on occasion for those tasks that XY doesn't do yet or not at all, so we've seen other ways, though admittedly we may not be experts on the "competion" products...and I don't think we share a single vison, other than to make XY the best product we can!
And...unlike many other forums, this forum is by no means a one-way communication, as you may have seen...Don, the author, interacts with us more than almost any developer that I've seen! Also...it's on a very timely basis!
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.
admsupport wrote:About the general feedback to this thread. It is like I write in the post before:
The risk for a developer or a reduced team is to share a single vision and to lake the ability to step back to try different approaches. Yes, a forum is nice, but it often one way communication for support, or for blind followers to show their amazement (because they love the app and the developer through it), until they move someplace else.
Oh, admsupport, is there any chance that you have a relative called Ivan (just another charming guy here on the forum)?
j_c_hallgren wrote: I'll take the risk and say that: You haven't been on these forums long enough to know just how diverse the ideas of solving a problem or how heated the discussions can be here
agreed! I am a newcomer.
this forum is by no means a one-way communication, as you may have seen...Don, the author, interacts with us more than almost any developer that I've seen!
agreed again, and glad to read you.
@herakles
Ivan is my son, and you can call me charming
I have skimmed over the FAQ on XYwiki, and known that Dual Pane will not available, but in my opinion, XYplorer is a file manager, not a file browser, so ``a dual panel is a must is still very strong.''
I want to know in deep of all my files and folders on my PC, and manipulate them, therefore dual pane is highly needed. As admsupport has said:
Visually compare folders (ease of use). There is no question, if 99% offer the same function there is always a good reason do follow the trend.
I don't care much about Dos or Windows or even Linux, on those operating systems you must have a tool to manage all of your files and folders efficiently.
With me, for now, XYplorer is just a toy, not a tool because it lacks of the most basic feature to become a good file manager, as a real tool must be. So, I suggest this feature to be an option for the users on future releases.
Regards
jasperlotus wrote:I have skimmed over the FAQ on XYwiki, and known that Dual Pane will not available, but in my opinion, XYplorer is a file manager, not a file browser, so ``a dual panel is a must is still very strong.''
Just a friendly comment -- jumping into a discussion with really strong statements when you're new to a forum can generate a first impression that you'd likely rather not have (perhaps something like a bull in a china shop...) It's often a good idea to read a bunch of the messages and get a feel for how things get discussed and what the "culture" is like -- otherwise, the established members are less likely to listen to what you have to say...
With that said, a bit of reading of fairly recent posts would have let you know that Don has said that Dual Pane is on his short list right now i.e. it is likely to be available in the not-too-distant future... (so your statement that "Dual Pane will not be available" is simply not accurate).
jasperlotus wrote:With me, for now, XYplorer is just a toy, not a tool because it lacks of the most basic feature to become a good file manager, as a real tool must be. So, I suggest this feature to be an option for the users on future releases.
I think you're letting your bias toward dual-pane cloud your vision here. Referring to XY as just a toy because it lacks dual pane (which you view to be essential) is somewhat like saying a car without a power-adjustable driver's seat is just a toy because it lacks that feature. Sure, it'd be nice to have, but that feature is just one of many -- there are many other features that are at least as essential for doing the task at hand, and others may view what you deem to be essential as non-essential or even as completely unnecessary.
I certainly see how dual pane can be useful, and when Don adds it to XY, I'll very likely use it regularly. However, there are so many useful features in XY that I use many times every day that it's still a great tool for me (WAY more than just a toy).
I think if you'll give XY a chance you'll realize that there is tremendous power and functionality available to you -- you just need to get past your initial resistance to a single-pane file manager (or wait until dual pane is available). If you'll really look at what it can do, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
avsfan wrote:
Just a friendly comment -- jumping into a discussion with really strong statements when you're new to a forum can generate a first impression that you'd likely rather not have (perhaps something like a bull in a china shop...) It's often a good idea to read a bunch of the messages and get a feel for how things get discussed and what the "culture" is like -- otherwise, the established members are less likely to listen to what you have to say...
Yeah! I appreciate your kindly comment, Thank you!
avsfan wrote:
I certainly see how dual pane can be useful, and when Don adds it to XY, I'll very likely use it regularly. However, there are so many useful features in XY that I use many times every day that it's still a great tool for me (WAY more than just a toy).
I think if you'll give XY a chance you'll realize that there is tremendous power and functionality available to you -- you just need to get past your initial resistance to a single-pane file manager (or wait until dual pane is available). If you'll really look at what it can do, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Oh, I just first came to the wiki and found out that disappointed FAQ.
jasperlotus wrote:With me, for now, XYplorer is just a toy, not a tool because it lacks of the most basic feature to become a good file manager, as a real tool must be. So, I suggest this feature to be an option for the users on future releases.
I think you're letting your bias toward dual-pane cloud your vision here. Referring to XY as just a toy because it lacks dual pane (which you view to be essential) is somewhat like saying a car without a power-adjustable driver's seat is just a toy because it lacks that feature. Sure, it'd be nice to have, but that feature is just one of many -- there are many other features that are at least as essential for doing the task at hand, and others may view what you deem to be essential as non-essential or even as completely unnecessary.
First: Hi and welcome to XY forums also!
I think avsfan has said what a number of us would have but in maybe better words...using that description of XY puts Win Expl as a toddler/infant toy then, and there are millions (billions?) of people who are fine with its cababilities so let's not dismiss XY just for that reason alone...and for another example...does the lack of native Windows Update ability in FireFox mean that it's not a great browser? No.
Would DP be good to have? Sure! That's why it's on the roadmap and there are many threads related to it...There are plenty of things that XY does that other file managers can't do and which make it very useful already, IMO...If you really evaluate the times when DP is crucial, you may find that it's not as often as you think...I found that to be the case, as my first alternative FM from WinExpl was xplorer2 lite, and for those rare cases, it's still my backup.
Last edited by j_c_hallgren on 03 Jan 2009 03:39, edited 1 time in total.
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.
In researching another issue here, I went looking on the x2 forums and what did I find? A series of threads by the author of this one (admsupport)! Seems he tried out both products, interacted with both authors, and then decided to go the other way...oh, well...can't win them all! But we gave it a good try, right?
And...he was using XY's looks to try and get x2 updated! Guess we maybe DO have the better product appearance out-of-the-box!
However, based on x2's change history, I suspect he may be waiting for a while to get any updates "over there"... Score 1 for us!
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.
Having seen and used earlier versions of XYplorer, I am amazed that as of version 7.9, the easiest, simplest -- for the USERS -- feature is still not there. The one feature that would bring new, paid users in droves:
Dual Pane display.
Why do you continue to ask "why ?" You KNOW why:
Why go through all this:
You have a system with two partitions, or two drives, no matter...
C: and D: need to be displayed at one time so you can see BOTH drives.
"Move To and Copy To dialogs:...."
And work and work, and work, because you can't see both drives at one time.
When the user (and you too are a user!) can easily do this:
You have a system with two partitions, or two drives, no matter...
Invoke or have stored dual-pane display.
C: and D: are displayed at one time, and you see BOTH drives.
You drag the file(s) / folders you need to copy or move, from C: and drop them on D:
Any folders or files that need to be created are created, things are moved or copied.
All done.
Please, why nothing like the above for all these years ?
Why keep asking users and people "why..." when we all KNOW the reason why...the real question is "why not ??"
Unbelievable why this still has not been done as an obvious needed, critical, time-and-effort-saving feature. No scripts needed, no macro's needed.
What makes XYplorer great also makes it VERY hard to master, memorize, locate, use, learn.
Even worse, far too many simple situations take far too long, and far too many manual steps to think about and actually do.
And dual-pane is absolutely clearly not a situation where someone has to be "convinced"...there's a programmers / product owners mental block preventing this from being done, many years ago, in fact...(OR) there's a software programming reason why it can't be done.
admin wrote:What's your (main) use for Dual Pane? (I'm still trying to understand the attraction...)
Here we go again....See also my past Forum message and explanation: http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1237
Having seen and used earlier versions of XYplorer, I am amazed that as of version 7.9, the easiest, simplest -- for the USERS -- feature is still not there.
Why keep asking users and people "why..." when we all KNOW the reason why...the real question is "why not ??"
Right..."here we go again"...I'm not Don, so I will give a user response to this:
You asked why Don asked the question, right? Because..this was a new potential user and Don wanted just another input, is what I see...had you been paying close attention to all of Don's postings recently, you would have noticed that work has already begun on DP, so it's in the pipeline, ok?
Also, having been one who was worked diligently but carefully for quite a long while to help convince Don that it makes sense to add DP, I'll say your arguement/example shown above is likely about the weakest one in support of it, and there are much more effective examples that I (and others) have presented which DO require DP, which yours really does not...maybe it's the way you're used to working, and so was I, to some extent, but in the meantime, I've gotten more used to doing the common moves/copy w/o DP...
One real valid case (to me) for DP is when you have a set of files to be compared that defy any programatic ability to do so and seeing them at same time is the only way to do so, because they differ not only in type of file, but also dates, size, and name...
Given the number of posts you've made over the time here, I find it a bit unlikely that you're a regular daily visitor to this forum, so it's entirely possible you may not have noticed the change in direction/attitude towards DP...but even so, Don may still wish to know from newer visitors what DP means to them...he already knows what we think, ok?
Hope that I wasn't offensive but posts like yours make me defensive of Don, which I'm sure you understand.
And DP is NOT the easiest, simplest feature, IMO...it's the most common one agreed, but for ease & simplicity, try the Catalog or Mini-Tree...these are unique to XY and do things that a DP setup still couldn't, so they are thus more valuable to the common user.
If you're the type of user who feels they are really that limited by lack of DP, then the unique XY features that really enhance productivity may not be for you.
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.
RE: << You asked why Don asked the question, right? Because..this was a new potential user and Don wanted just another input, is what I see...had you been paying close attention to all of Don's postings recently, you would have noticed that work has already begun on DP, so it's in the pipeline, ok? >>
Very good. That's the first really positive move towards DP in about four years. Why it took four years, I do not ask again, we do not have to know.
RE: << Also, having been one who was worked diligently but carefully for quite a long while to help convince Don that it makes sense to add DP, I'll say your arguement/example shown above is likely about the weakest one in support of it, and there are much more effective examples that I (and others) have presented which DO require DP, which yours really does not. >>
In my case, I started asking about DP in 2006. I am absolutely sure that a great many others have asked about it, maybe not all of us in Forum messages, but also in Emails and in private voice conversations with Don.
Just as XYplorer is an honestly great application -- and that is not false praise -- dual-pane is a great option. If you or others have never tried it in other products, it's your loss, really, as you and others must have spent minutes doing things that others can do in mere seconds, or perhaps dual-pane must have totally confounded a great many people, be they users or software programmers.
My "argument" was obviously only one of 1,000 possible scenerio's where DP could be shown useful and expedient -- you know that, of course, and so did I. You know of many other situations where DP could be proven useful and expedient, and I look forward to our learning from each other.
RE: << One real valid case (to me) for DP is when you have a set of files to be compared that defy any programatic ability to do so and seeing them at same time is the only way to do so, because they differ not only in type of file, but also dates, size, and name... >>
Exactly...good valid case observation. And yes, this is just one of a multitude of situations where DP is in many instances, a great option to have.
RE: << Given the number of posts you've made over the time here, I find it a bit unlikely that you're a regular daily visitor to this forum, so it's entirely possible you may not have noticed the change in direction/attitude towards DP. >>
Having been in the technology, technical writing, training, software/hardware Beta, Field and UI Testing, and user-support industry since "how old is dirt ?", in my case since 1970, it still does not explain why it took four years, more or less, to convince Don of something incredibly simple (idea and need wise) as dual-pane.
RE: << And DP is NOT the easiest, simplest feature, IMO...it's the most common one agreed, but for ease & simplicity, try the Catalog or Mini-Tree...these are unique to XY and do things that a DP setup still couldn't, so they are thus more valuable to the common user. >>
Agreed! DP is an OPTION, a carefully done option that can be used in the situation(s) where [Catalog or Mini-Tree...these are unique to XY and do things that a DP setup still couldn't,] really can NOT do DP(!) as fast as simply having DP on-screen at one time.
Catalog and Mini-Tree ARE useful options, and no one is even remotely ignoring them or saying that they have to go,say, in favor of adding dual-pane option.
Yet, DP can be "learned" by users and programmers in mere seconds, literally. Now, contrast that "in seconds" learning time and curve with all the other viewing options that are currently in XYplorer. Most, but of course not ALL, XYplorer features and options take anywhere from minutes to maybe an hour to see about, judge, test use and try them out, etc.
Last but not least...
RE: << Hope that I wasn't offensive but posts like yours make me defensive of Don, which I'm sure you understand. >>
Not at all. I am likewise hopeful that you, Don and the myriad of XYplorer users were not and am not irritated by my sometimes hurried leaving of messages over the past four year span. My intentions were not to abuse or irritate.
In all reasoning, I am VERY much wanting to see Don and the users, and XYplorer succeed even more than they and it has.
I look forward to DP being introduced, and I humbly offer any of my technology, technical writing, training, software/hardware Beta, Field and UI Testing, and user-support industry services at absolutely no charge to Don...I would truly love to Beta test and comment on anything new that's added to XYplorer.
In fact, before dual-pane is introduced, I am already looking over XYplorer BETA version (v7.90.0024, 02-jan-2009) today.
josephrot wrote:Greetings... I truly appreciate the reply, by j_c_hallgren ...
[....] I am likewise hopeful that you, Don and the myriad of XYplorer users were not and am not irritated by my sometimes hurried leaving of messages over the past four year span. My intentions were not to abuse or irritate
Glad to know! Recently had to interact with a couple of other new users who weren't quite as receptive, (and one who got a bit, shall we say, testy?), so I was a bit stronger in my reaction than maybe otherwise...so thanks for understanding!
I look forward to DP being introduced, and I humbly offer any of my technology, technical writing, training, software/hardware Beta, Field and UI Testing, and user-support industry services at absolutely no charge to Don...I would truly love to Beta test and comment on anything new that's added to XYplorer.
We all are looking forward to being a part of this great new venture! Any and all assistance may be helpful, but we need to try as much as possible to keep a positive spin to it, right?
In fact, before dual-pane is introduced, I am already looking over XYplorer BETA version (v7.90.0024, 02-jan-2009) today.
Hope you like it!
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.
XYplorer Beta Club
It appears that you're a satisified user but new to the forums, so I'll say welcome to the XY forums to you also, which I attempt to do as a habit...I try my best to make this a nice place to be since it's a large part of the reason that I like XY, and why those poor folks who use Mac's will never see how good we have it!
)
Thank you!
Score 1 for us!
Hope you like it!