Folder Specific Settings Bugs

[j_c_hallgren]

Okay, Folder View Settings, I like it!

Thanks!!! And...Google has it as leader also, it seems.

To end with a new proposal:

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder View Settings 
    --- 
    Save Folder View 
    Edit... 
    Remove
    --- 
    Save Folder View As...
    Save Folder View As Default

Love it!! Looking at it based on all comments, I can't find anything wrong with this variant! It's clean, simple, easy to follow, etc.

Let's rock-n-roll !

[jacky]

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder View Settings 
    --- 
    Save Folder View 
    Edit... 
    Remove
    --- 
    Save Folder View As...
    Save Folder View As Default

Nope, almost there

I just don't like the "Save As" phrasing, so I think this would be better :

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder View Settings 
    --- 
    Save Folder View 
    Edit... 
    Remove
    --- 
    Save As New Folder View...
    Save As Default Folder View

[j_c_hallgren]

Code: Select all

    Save Folder View As...
    Save Folder View As Default

I just don't like the "Save As" phrasing, so I think this would be better :

Code: Select all

    Save As New Folder View...
    Save As Default Folder View

Sorry jacky, but I see more consistency in the first as it relates to section above, plus the "save view as" implies, to me, that one can give it a name (IMAGE/VIDEO/etc) (if that's what is meant) more than the second variant...It may not be what we all agree on, but it's a whole lot better than we started with.

And this gives one a clear choice of the three possible types of save: current, new name, or default.

[jacky]

plus the "save view as" implies, to me, that one can give it a name (IMAGE/VIDEO/etc) (if that's what is meant)

But that's my problem, it's not a name, it's the folder/pattern for the new FV! Which is why I think it's better to phrase it as a new view, thus with a different folder name/patten. You're creating a new FV, and that's why I think it should clearly say so...

[admin]

plus the "save view as" implies, to me, that one can give it a name (IMAGE/VIDEO/etc) (if that's what is meant)

But that's my problem, it's not a name, it's the folder/pattern for the new FV! Which is why I think it's better to phrase it as a new view, thus with a different folder name/patten. You're creating a new FV, and that's why I think it should clearly say so...

But the FV is what your folder looks like, not the the saved scheme which contains various other info and can be edited. The FV cannot be edited. If you do "Save As New Folder View" then you must also do "Save As Folder View" for the first Save command. But it's correctly labeled "Save Folder View" which means the current folder view is attached/associated to a scheme which will be used to restore it. In my proposal I left out "scheme" because i did not want to introduce another term, but it is implied:

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder View Settings 
    --- 
    Save Folder View [to scheme]
    Edit [scheme]... 
    Remove [scheme] 
    --- 
    Save Folder View As [new scheme]... 
    Save Folder View As Default [scheme]

[admin]

plus the "save view as" implies, to me, that one can give it a name (IMAGE/VIDEO/etc) (if that's what is meant)

But that's my problem, it's not a name, it's the folder/pattern for the new FV! Which is why I think it's better to phrase it as a new view, thus with a different folder name/patten. You're creating a new FV, and that's why I think it should clearly say so...

Adding to the last post:
The "Save" versus "Save As" is a Windows classic IMO:
Save: change current data set
Save as: do not change current data set but create new one containting the updated version.

Sure, in our case you can change more than the name, but that's not so important. The important thing - and the only reason why this command exists at all -- is: you can create a scheme for the current folder view, without touching the scheme that's currently active!

[jacky]

But the FV is what your folder looks like, not the the saved scheme which contains various other info and can be edited.

Okay, that's one way to look at it. You could also say the FV is everything that's relating to the folder : the name/pattern, the options, what to remember and the values remembered.

If you do "Save As New Folder View" then you must also do "Save As Folder View" for the first Save command.

uh? what?? I don't get that part. Right now I'm in a folder without FV or whatever we call it. I can do "Save" and it's saved, or, I can do "Save As" and decide that this will be remembered but for another folder. no?

In my mind, the FV was the whole thing as I said above, so one could either "Save (Current) FV", or "Save As New FV" which means it can be for another folder/pattern and will not affect the current one (if any).

In my proposal I left out "scheme" because i did not want to introduce another term, but it is implied

Yeah only that's the thing, when you say "Save Folder View As" no one sees an implication of as something else than what it is, and what it is is said before the "as".

The "Save" versus "Save As" is a Windows classic IMO:
Save: change current data set
Save as: do not change current data set but create new one containting the updated version.

Yes, I do agree with that. But I disagree with that:

Sure, in our case you can change more than the name, but that's not so important.

It is important, because the "as" implies just that, a new name. The standard is "Save As" means "make a copy of" basically, yes, but "Save XXX As" doesn't imply to save something else than XXX. It can be As a new format, but it won't be something else.

Yet, here, it kinda is, since the name is more than that, it's part of what's being saved, and so we can change the folder it will be applied to, or even any other settings/options for that matter.
Which is why, again, I feel it "makes more sense"/seems more natural to use "Save As New FV" -- then again, in my mind we would use "Folder View" to refer as everything that's saved : the folder name/pattern, the options, etc

Seemed simpler that wayn than to go "there's a view but that's not everything, there's also a scheme also we don't really use that word but it is there"
That's why my first proposal was like "Edit Folder View". To me, the short version "Edit" means edit the FV, not the scheme (though we're talking about the exact same thing here, it's just the words we use to refer to it).

[admin]

But the FV is what your folder looks like, not the the saved scheme which contains various other info and can be edited.

Okay, that's one way to look at it. ...

Yes, I think we have a different understanding/usage of "Save X" here.

The full statement would be:
Save [data] to a [file]; or generally: Save [contents] to a [form].
When I say "Save X" I mean "Save data [to a file]"
When you say "Save X" you mean "Save [data to a] file"

I can relate to both readings, but in this context I prefer mine.

[j_c_hallgren]

I kind of dislike adding to all the words here and adding to this lengthy thread (one of the longest for a while) but...

It is important, because the "as" implies just that, a new name. The standard is "Save As" means "make a copy of" basically, yes, but "Save XXX As" doesn't imply to save something else than XXX. It can be As a new format, but it won't be something else.

When I see "Save As", to me, it can be used to just create a copy under a new name and/or create a new format depending on the product and thus "Save XXX As" is really just a better or more complete description of what is being saved but doesn't imply anything else...and in this case, we are saving XXX under a new name and not saving YYY so I don't see jacky's point. Sorry.

Which is why, again, I feel it "makes more sense"/seems more natural to use "Save As New FV"

I must be missing something because "Save As New FV" doesn't quite seem correct or make sense to me in this context, because it appears to not give user a choice on what to name it, while "Save FV As" leaves the name as the 'fill-in-the-blank' at the end.

In conclusion: I'm siding with Don at this point!

[jacky]

When I see "Save As", to me, it can be used to just create a copy under a new name and/or create a new format depending on the product and thus "Save XXX As" is really just a better or more complete description of what is being saved but doesn't imply anything else...and in this case, we are saving XXX under a new name and not saving YYY so I don't see jacky's point.

My point was: you're not really saving XXX since you can alter the pattern, the options (e.g. inc. subfolders, auto-save change, etc), what's saved (sort order, column visibility, etc) and even the "view" itself actually, because if the current view says "order by size desc" but doesn't have "auto-save changes" enabled, then you sort by modified asc and use this "Save As" command, what will be saved is "modified asc" not the (remembered as part of current "view") setting of "size desc".

All of this made me say we're not saving (a copy of the current one) as a new name, we're saving a brand new one (more or less based on the current one), hence why I really feel "Save As New" it more truthful than "Save As"



Anyways... I know I'm right but I appear to be in the minority at this point, so let's go back to this and have Don do some coding now, so things can move on. (Plus, he can still rename the menus later on )

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder View Settings
    ---
    Save Folder View
    Edit...
    Remove
    ---
    Save Folder View As...
    Save Folder View As Default

[TheQwerty]

My opinion, at that point "Folder View" would be better replaced by "Current View..."

Code: Select all

Enable Folder View Settings
---
Save Current View
Edit...
Remove
---
Save Current View As...
Save Current View As Default

And maybe even change "Save Current View As Default" to "Use Current View As Default."

[j_c_hallgren]

All of this made me say we're not saving (a copy of the current one) as a new name, we're saving a brand new one (more or less based on the current one), hence why I really feel "Save As New" it more truthful than "Save As"

Ok...but I relate it to other situations, such as Notepad...I can take xxx.txt, open it in Notepad, rework the entire contents, and do a "Save As" yyy.txt, so yes, yyy.txt is a brand new file based on xxx.txt, but it did reflect how the current working copy of xxx looked at the moment it was saved...and...Notepad doesn't have a "Save as New" but uses the "Save As" variant as most do.

Anyway, I think we're done beating up this poor "view" so let's go on to other bigger issues!

Addendum:

My opinion, at that point "Folder View" would be better replaced by "Current View..."
And maybe even change "Save Current View As Default" to "Use Current View As Default."

I think current is presumed to be the one that is being handled so defining what object is being manipulated is better.
Also, "Use Curr as Default" does not say that it is being saved as such when it is, so it's more unclear to me as to what is going on. My $.02.

[admin]

My opinion, at that point "Folder View" would be better replaced by "Current View..."

Code: Select all

Enable Folder View Settings
---
Save Current View
Edit...
Remove
---
Save Current View As...
Save Current View As Default

And maybe even change "Save Current View As Default" to "Use Current View As Default."

At this point I won't accept any improvements nor discussions anymore!

A short answer anyway: the advantage of "Folder View" is that it somehow conveys the central idea of Folder<=>View, i.e. that these current View Settings are attached to a certain, namely again the current, folder.

[TheQwerty]

At this point I won't accept any improvements nor discussions anymore!

A short answer anyway: the advantage of "Folder View" is that it somehow conveys the central idea of Folder<=>View, i.e. that these current View Settings are attached to a certain, namely again the current, folder.

But they aren't attached to the Folder they are attached to a pattern which this Folder matches.

Whatever though.. it's your mistake to make, not mine.

[j_c_hallgren]

At this point I won't accept any improvements nor discussions anymore!

Except for one more thing: I want to really thank you for the chance to have this discussion! It's this type of thing that makes me LOVE working with XY and the work of our galiant author Don!