Dual Pane - Formal Proposal Thread

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 19 Jun 2008 18:08

dualpane-groupie wrote:
serendipity wrote:Is this some kind of reverse psychology by a DP opponent? Because this post did more harm than good to the DP proposal. Maybe its even a rival software's strategy, if so, a good one.
Are you one of these "single pane" maniacs or why to you post such crap (your time is gone anyway)? Reverse psychology...what should this be good for?

No, serendipity has been here on the these forums longer than I have...almost 3 yrs now (counting prior user name), so he's far from a maniac...I'd give his opinion much more weight than someone who joined just now...and again, irritating or flaming established users is not productive to your cause, ok? Mesh didn't take this approach and that's why we paid attention to him. You'd do well to emulate his style.

dualpane-groupie wrote:It seems you haven't realized that DP will be implemented for sure (there is no "maybe"). I repeat: XYplorer will be a DP file manager in the near future (the admin promised it). DP won, SP lost. It's so easy.

Well, since you're not Don, you can't know for sure...promises have been made before and changed, so don't count on it...and please don't ruin our chances for DP by offending Don, which you're likely doing. Some of us have worked hard to get to this point and it could be all for naught if this approach continues.

dualpane-groupie wrote:So why do you hesitate? Implement it NOW and everybody will be happy (well, not really everbody, but do the few SP madmen really count?).

Why do you insist on continuing to insult us? And your tone ("NOW") is also a bit offensive, at least to me. We're not madmen and we SP'rs, by far, outnumber DP'rs in total market share so by making it DP we will gain potential new users, but will still likely never please everyone and that's fine...there are plenty of competing products in the FM group and you'll likely continue to use one so why should we pay attention to one who's not being respectful of the existing user base?

dualpane-groupie · Post by **dualpane-groupie** » 19 Jun 2008 18:30

j_c_hallgren wrote:...so why should we pay attention to one who's not being respectful of the existing user base?

I don't want to offend anyone and surely I don't want to counteract Mesh's (who's power of persuasion I really admire) and the other proponent's efforts who finally brought the admin to his senses.

But I want to make one thing clear: I don't want your attention or your respect (I couldn't care less), all I want is the implementation of DP. Pronto!

graham · Post by **graham** » 19 Jun 2008 18:59

dualpane-groupie wrote

But I want to make one thing clear: I don't want your attention or your respect (I couldn't care less), all I want is the implementation of DP. Pronto!

Just to annoy you this time, since you are so passionate about DP just buy a DP only file manager or is it that XY offers a whole lot more?

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 19 Jun 2008 19:05

dualpane-groupie wrote:I don't want to offend anyone and surely I don't want to counteract Mesh's (who's power of persuasion I really admire) and the other proponent's efforts who finally brought the admin to his senses.

Thanks! That's what I had hoped to hear (and I'm sure others also)...I was sure that I'd almost convinced Don about 2 yrs ago or so in a personal conversation, but then we had some users who posted here in forum with a somewhat similar type of tone, and Don got offended (as I recall) and said "no way" so we went backwards...that's all I'm trying to do now is keep Don happy and focused on a likely goal of more users=more sales=more satisfaction.

dualpane-groupie wrote:But I want to make one thing clear: I don't want your attention or your respect (I couldn't care less), all I want is the implementation of DP. Pronto!

That's fine...The difference is that I do attempt to respect any/all other forum users here, and thus hope to be treated likewise...aka "Golden Rule"...

Don is a unique individual and I've learned that no one (well, except maybe his family/relatives!) can tell him what to do and when...all we can do is ask, and often the wish is granted...plus, he's got an organized plan of attack for future changes, so where DP fits in that is totally up to him..

As I wrote before, it may well be in a phased implementation, which has worked quite well before with other major changes, so if you're inclined to participate in the process, then we can all help make it better, ok?

Post by **admin** » 19 Jun 2008 19:18

j_c_hallgren wrote:Don is a unique individual and I've learned that no one (well, except maybe his family/relatives!) can tell him what to do and when...all we can do is ask, and often the wish is granted...plus, he's got an organized plan of attack for future changes, so where DP fits in that is totally up to him..

Sounds a bit like I'm a freak...

What's so unique about deciding for oneself?

And don't worry, I don't care about the average DP jerkie boy. He's probably astroturfing anyway...

And now back to soccer!

dualpane-groupie · Post by **dualpane-groupie** » 19 Jun 2008 19:28

admin wrote:And don't worry, I don't care about the average DP jerkie boy. He's probably astroturfing anyway...

Astroturfing? I don't know this expression. Could you explain...I bet it's offending.

admin wrote:And now back to soccer!

Haha, the Portugese will give you Krauts a good trashing today!!!!

alxwz · Post by **alxwz** » 23 Jun 2008 18:16

dualpane-groupie wrote:Haha, the Portugese will give you Krauts a good trashing today!!!!

Looks like you were wrong

And, BTW, they're spelled Portuguese.

I don't quite get why some people have to be offensive and name-calling here, and ruin the thread in this way.

For my comment, that I don't need separate trees, I don't care if it has them or not.

I really don't understand the bitterness of this debate. IMO, there are good use cases (most of the time) for single pane (actually, it's two-pane, if you count the folders tree and the files pane) and dual pane (sometimes, when you want to display contents of two folders side by side). Dual pane is even better when combined with "flat" view of subfolders. Personally, I find neither pure single- nor orthodox dual-pane file managers optimal.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 26 Jul 2008 16:26

This thread has been quite for a month - have we reached a consensus as to our collective vision for how DP should be integrated?

Post by **admin** » 26 Jul 2008 16:27

Darwin wrote:This thread has been quite for a month - have we reached a consensus as to our collective vision for how DP should be integrated?

No, I did not even start. I plan to join the discussion after the release of 7.80.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 26 Jul 2008 23:28

admin wrote:
Darwin wrote:This thread has been quite for a month - have we reached a consensus as to our collective vision for how DP should be integrated?
No, I did not even start. I plan to join the discussion after the release of 7.80.

Heh, heh, thanks for the update Don! I was actually thinking more in terms of the other users and whether or not it is time for us to summarize the ideas in this thread for you.

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 29 Jul 2008 08:47

It does exist at least one very good directory tree comparison tool available on the market: BeyondCompare.

So, why to develop a weak comparison tool on XYplorer?
You can do a commercial arrangement and cross sell your software.
The users will be much happier.

In my point of view, directory tree comparison is definitely not the purpose of XYplorer.

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 29 Jul 2008 09:32

enrique wrote:In my point of view, directory tree comparison is definitely not the purpose of XYplorer.

Well, it's been my experience that anyone who is a dual-pane user/fan firmly believes that it's not only the purpose of a file manager, but a core requirement, and should be fully incorporated within product itself.

Mesh · Post by **Mesh** » 29 Jul 2008 22:13

Darwin wrote:
Heh, heh, thanks for the update Don! I was actually thinking more in terms of the other users and whether or not it is time for us to summarize the ideas in this thread for you.

Well, that's the purpose of the formal proposal that exists as the first post of this thread. If there's anything in that proposal that you feel should be changed, removed, or added to - by all means, bring it up. Otherwise, I update that list as needed, based on the discussions of the rest of the thread.

Mesh · Post by **Mesh** » 29 Jul 2008 22:16

enrique wrote:
It does exist at least one very good directory tree comparison tool available on the market: BeyondCompare.

So, why to develop a weak comparison tool on XYplorer?
You can do a commercial arrangement and cross sell your software.
The users will be much happier.

In my point of view, directory tree comparison is definitely not the purpose of XYplorer.

If you've followed the in depth discussions on the matter, you'll have read that there are many many situations where a comparison needs to be done that cannot be handled by a simple algorithm. A tool like BeyondCompare is useless in such cases. For those situations, a human mind is required to handle the comparison - and that is a perfect reason why a file manager should have dual pane functionality. Mind you, it's not the only reason - but it's strong enough to stand by itself.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 29 Jul 2008 22:26

Mesh wrote:
Darwin wrote:
Heh, heh, thanks for the update Don! I was actually thinking more in terms of the other users and whether or not it is time for us to summarize the ideas in this thread for you.

Well, that's the purpose of the formal proposal that exists as the first post of this thread. If there's anything in that proposal that you feel should be changed, removed, or added to - by all means, bring it up. Otherwise, I update that list as needed, based on the discussions of the rest of the thread.