Dual Pane - Formal Proposal Thread

[jacky]

Sorry a this little OT thing, but:

2) if i move with mouse over one XY, and try to scroll the mousewheel to navigate in the tree, itwon't work as the XY first has to be made active.

I can only recomend you to check out KatMouse, awesome little thing I couldn't live without anymore!

[ReviewPilot]

yes, sorry, I was more replying to Custers suggestion than to the "absolute" DP feature..

1) if I close the wrong XY first, the next time I open Xy it will load the wrong folders.

That doesn't directly apply here, as closing XY while in DP mode will simply mean that when you next start up XY, each pane will come back to the same directories they were in before.

The closest analogy would be when you flip from dual to single mode, the active pane is the one that would be retained. And the issue of what the second pane comes back as when you next go into dual mode is already addressed in the current proposal.

2) if i move with mouse over one XY, and try to scroll the mousewheel to navigate in the tree, itwon't work as the XY first has to be made active.
Thats one special feature which has to work on DPs.
Just like if i move the mouse over tree or list view.


cheers RP

Well, at the moment, scroll wheels work based on where the cursor is hovering. If the cursor is over the file list pane, then that's what scrolls. And if it's over the tree, than the tree is what scrolls. I would imagine that it would work the same way with the second pane.

I've edited the proposal to reflect this detail.

[ReviewPilot]

Sorry a this little OT thing, but:

2) if i move with mouse over one XY, and try to scroll the mousewheel to navigate in the tree, itwon't work as the XY first has to be made active.

I can only recomend you to check out KatMouse, awesome little thing I couldn't live without anymore!

thx jacky. but my first plan concerning mouses is throwing my logitech mx out of the window. ok sorry for OT mesh.

[alxwz]

I've been away for quite a while and was happy to find this thread and read that Don apparently agreed to include dual panes in v. 8.0. Much to my dismay, I found yet another case of some weirdo fundamentalists turning a good thread into a flame war.

On topic: The lack of dual pane support was exactly the reason for me to abandon XY despite having purchased a (lifetime) license quite a while ago. This is an absolutely crucial feature, and a show stopper for me. It's definitely something completely different from tabs. Since I don't like using multiple file managers, and never could quite get my mind around pure "commander" style file managers like TC (a great app in some other ways, and I purchased that one as well), I resorted to DOpus, but I'd really appreciate a more lightweight, well-coded file manager like XY.

My needs when it comes to DP are pretty basic.

I want two panes, each with its set of tabs, in a single window. No juggling between two windows. Each pane should have a basic way to navigate. It would be nice to combine it with "grouped" flat view (like DOpus) and separate filters.

I don't need separate trees for both panes. A single pane for both (displaying the tree for the active pane) would do. But I'd relly like to still have a preview while displaying two file panes.

BTW: Actually, a major gripe I have with XY is the basic layout, most importantly the info panel, which doubles as the preview pane. This way, the preview is way too cramped.
I don't know about the current version, the last one I used (and still have installed) is 6.1. Maybe there were some changes, but I doubt it.

[serendipity]

BTW: Actually, a major gripe I have with XY is the basic layout, most importantly the info panel, which doubles as the preview pane. This way, the preview is way too cramped.
I don't know about the current version, the last one I used (and still have installed) is 6.1. Maybe there were some changes, but I doubt it.

Welcome back!
By cramped you mean, the height or the width of panel?

If Width: Use menu "Window>Wide info panel"
If height: Use menu "Window>Maximize info panel"

[ReviewPilot]

I don't need separate trees for both panes. A single pane for both (displaying the tree for the active pane) would do.

hi,
so everyone comes with different needs. I need two seperated trees.
I think this is usual when new features get (probably) available: different use cases, different needs.
This specific point is a good example where Don would have to give the user the option how to display his/her very own DP.
But I think such userdefined settings are very common, especially with XY

Regards, RP

[admin]

I don't need separate trees for both panes. A single pane for both (displaying the tree for the active pane) would do.

hi,
so everyone comes with different needs. I need two seperated trees.
I think this is usual when new features get (probably) available: different use cases, different needs.
This specific point is a good example where Don would have to give the user the option how to display his/her very own DP.
But I think such userdefined settings are very common, especially with XY

Regards, RP

Please do not forget this important statement right at the beginning of this thread:

...Don has been kind enough and generous enough to agree to implement Dual Pane into XYplorer 8.0, providing that the users interested in DP can agree on a clear and simple concept.

This is still the crucial precondition to the whole thread.

[ReviewPilot]

Please do not forget this important statement right at the beginning of this thread:

...Don has been kind enough and generous enough to agree to implement Dual Pane into XYplorer 8.0, providing that the users interested in DP can agree on a clear and simple concept.

This is still the crucial precondition to the whole thread.

Hi Don,
how much of "user adjustability" would you be poised to implement? Some will be needed I guess.
E.g., another example would be the layout of the DP hor/vert.

Everyone has other preferences, but some basic variations are needful I'm afraid.

[admin]

Please do not forget this important statement right at the beginning of this thread:

...Don has been kind enough and generous enough to agree to implement Dual Pane into XYplorer 8.0, providing that the users interested in DP can agree on a clear and simple concept.

This is still the crucial precondition to the whole thread.

Hi Don,
how much of "user adjustability" would you be poised to implement? Some will be needed I guess.
E.g., another example would be the layout of the DP hor/vert.

Everyone has other preferences, but some basic variations are needful I'm afraid.

Variations can be superficial GUI affairs (like hor/vert), or deep architectural matters (e.g. tabs-tree-list-list versus tabs-tree-list-tree-list versus tabs-tree-list-tabs-tree-list) -- there are many possibilities, and I cannot give an exhaustive overview here.

So, the planned procedure is: I will read the proposal (when I finally find the time for it), then I will formulate my counter( )-proposal based on it, and we'll see where we get from there...

[dualpane-groupie]

Please do not forget this important statement right at the beginning of this thread:

...Don has been kind enough and generous enough to agree to implement Dual Pane into XYplorer 8.0, providing that the users interested in DP can agree on a clear and simple concept.

This is still the crucial precondition to the whole thread.

Mesh (my hero) did more than everyone else on this forum: he convinced you to turn XYplorer in a DP file manager finally.

All the other stupids who whine "Please don't make XYplorer like all the other file managers, it should stay single pane and be proud of it" are only old-style fundamentalists who don't know how to manage files properly.

You make software for the users, not for you. You wanna sell - so you should make what everybody wants. If XYplorer afterwards looks like every other file manager on earth, who cares.

It's not about selling your soul or something, it's just business. The crowd wants dual pane and you should be prudent enough to give it what it wants because the majority is always right.

Just face it: we are the majority and we demand DP; we will never stop until you implement it.

To think that it will be enough to implement a light version is naive (some of us might say so but you maybe know the proverb "Give him an inch and he will take an ell". I think you get the idea.). We want a complete implementation like in every other DP file manager.

So bow to the inevitable and implement it NOW!

[j_c_hallgren]

Mesh (my hero) did more than everyone else on this forum: he convinced you to turn XYplorer in a DP file manager finally.

I don't think it was just Mesh that did it..it was a number of us who've "worked" on Don for some time. Yes, it was his calm professional approach that may have helped win him over, but I won't give total credit to any one person.

All the other stupids who whine "Please don't make XYplorer like all the other file managers, it should stay single pane and be proud of it" are only old-style fundamentalists who don't know how to manage files properly.

IMHO, insulting a large number of the existing user base on your first post (calling them "stupids") is not the ideal way to approach this issue. You're saying that one cannot manage files without DP. I beg to disagree! I'll freely admit that in some cases, it makes it much easier, but for the rest of the cases, it's just simply not needed. You're telling me, a person with 25+ yrs in the corporate IT environment, that I can't manage my files "properly" with a single-pane FM? Well...guess what? You're wrong!!

You make software for the users, not for you. You wanna sell - so you should make what everybody wants. If XYplorer afterwards looks like every other file manager on earth, who cares.

While I agree about making software for users, if the developer wants it to look/act a certain way, he/she/they should certainly have that right as it's their efforts that create and maintain the product. Don cares very much about XY so I care about him, and he wants XY to look unlike anything else, because that's the way you get sales! By making it better than the competition! Yes, it should do what others do, and more, but in terms of looks, well, that's HIS call.

It's not about selling your soul or something, it's just business. The crowd wants dual pane and you should be prudent enough to give it what it wants because the majority is always right.

Well, if the "majority is always right", then everyone would still be using Microsoft and Windows Explorer! Yes, there may a sizable number of potential users who want DP, but given that it's been pretty successful thus far proves that it's not required. Same with Apple and Linux...The majority prefer Windows so that means thusly that "they" are right and those other systems should be Winows also. And in terms of majority being right: That's why USA is a 'representative republic' and not a true democracy! It's worked for us for 200+ yrs just fine.

Just face it: we are the majority and we demand DP; we will never stop until you implement it.

You may represent a predominant view of the DP subset, but I certainly don't believe that DP's are the majority and should be able to "demand" anything, other than a wish for a product that does a certain thing. The largest target audience for any replacement file manager is a Win Expl user as they have no idea of what they are missing. There are a large number of DP users of other FM's that also are a target market, including other single-pane FM's, but I'm guessing that Don would rather gain 1% of the total Win Expl users than 80% of the DP users since the first number would overwhelming dwarf the second one.

To think that it will be enough to implement a light version is naive (some of us might say so but you maybe know the proverb "Give him an inch and he will take an ell". I think you get the idea.). We want a complete implementation like in every other DP file manager.

There have been a large number of features that have been implemented in a phased approach, and I see DP done the same. There's nothing wrong with that, given the complexity of the project. If you want a complete DP the way that you're used to, then XY may likely never be the product for you. And that's ok.

So bow to the inevitable and implement it NOW!

As I said before, as a first time poster here, do you really think that making demands like that will get you anywhere? Even I, as a very loyal forum member and user for 2 1/2 yrs would NEVER ever use such language here. It's attitude like that which caused Don to reject DP before, so keep it up, and we may well be set back once again.

I really hate being that harsh, and don't want to get into any flame wars, but Mesh took the right approach to this, by being reasonable, organized, understanding, and professional, as I would expect from any IT personnel, so that's why Don and the rest of us are working with him on this. I'd highly suggest a change in attitude if you want to help make XY a DP product, as I've seen it before and the results have been totally counter-productive to the desired change.

[admin]

I'd highly suggest a change in attitude if you want to help make XY a DP product, as I've seen it before and the results have been totally counter-productive to the desired change.

You bet! That most of the DP-niks hassling me in recent years readily presented themselves just as the brand of jerk we just heard again in this thread was not exactly turning me toward DP...

[serendipity]

Is this some kind of reverse psychology by a DP opponent? Because this post did more harm than good to the DP proposal. Maybe its even a rival software's strategy, if so, a good one.

[dualpane-groupie]

Is this some kind of reverse psychology by a DP opponent? Because this post did more harm than good to the DP proposal. Maybe its even a rival software's strategy, if so, a good one.

Are you one of these "single pane" maniacs or why to you post such crap (your time is gone anyway)? Reverse psychology...what should this be good for?

It seems you haven't realized that DP will be implemented for sure (there is no "maybe"). I repeat: XYplorer will be a DP file manager in the near future (the admin promised it). DP won, SP lost. It's so easy.

So why do you hesitate? Implement it NOW and everybody will be happy (well, not really everbody, but do the few SP madmen really count?).

[serendipity]

Is this some kind of reverse psychology by a DP opponent? Because this post did more harm than good to the DP proposal. Maybe its even a rival software's strategy, if so, a good one.

Are you one of these "single pane" maniacs or why to you post such crap (your time is gone anyway)? Reverse psychology...what should this be good for?

It seems you haven't realized that DP will be implemented for sure (there is no "maybe"). I repeat: XYplorer will be a DP file manager in the near future (the admin promised it). DP won, SP lost. It's so easy.

So why do you hesitate? Implement it NOW and everybody will be happy (well, not really everbody, but do the few SP madmen really count?).

Relax, you are being too pushy here. I agree that DP is essential in some cases but the way you are asking for this feature is not right. Admin merely agreed upon DP because he saw the point made by several people here and thinks it might be useful afterall. But you being outright pushy and rude to the admin by DEMANDING the DP rather than requesting it.
Remember, its not a war on DP and SP. The point has long been made and well taken, and a draft of it will come in 8.0 version. What I dont understand is why you are being pushy at this when you already know its going to come anyway. What is the point you are trying to make? Thats what confuses me with your post.
Peace.