How about Total Commander like dual pane view?

[graham]

Jeff wrote

When you need to visually compare 2 folders side-by-side, what do *you* do, since XY isn't dual-pane?

It does seem that this is useful to a lot of people. Is this the only 'real' benefit of having two lists side by side? If yes then maybe the solution is not to go dual pane but have a compare folders routine in XY.

In such a routine the folders are selected and then XY throws up a NEW window with the two list views side by side. It could of course be enhanced to highlight differences etc.

This is a compromise solution but does not enter the trauma of dual pane!

[admin]

This is a compromise solution but does not enter the trauma of dual pane!

I found a better way: I took DP off the roadmap. Sorry, folks, but I want to close this discussion for good. You'll find DP file managers everywhere you go. Here is multi-tab.

Period.

[Jeff Bellune]

When you need to visually compare 2 folders side-by-side, what do *you* do, since XY isn't dual-pane?

Honestly, I never had to! And with my work style and data organization, I cannot imagine a situation where I would need it. My folders are all different. I know that, I don't need to look.

Interesting.

I don't have to do it often, but when I do, DP is a very useful feature.

Example:

I use ViceVersa Pro to sync files between my laptop and my desktop at home so that I can work on client's projects when I travel. That involves a lot of media files and other files that go into the projects.

Recently, after a reorganization of some assets, 2 folders would not sync properly using VV. So I had to manually compare them, file-by-file, to see what was causing the discrepancy. I used a DP app to do this, because the thought of trying to do it in XY was frightening.

I don't want to have to install *two* file managers just to so that I can be sure that I have the ability to fix things efficiently when I make mistakes. I'd like to be able to rely on XY for that.

NB: I consider DP to be a "core" file manager function, while things like zip suppprt and FTP fall more into the "accessory" category. Others will likely disagree with the "core-ness" of DP or zip or FTP .

-Jeff

EDIT: Sorry for the late post - I didn't see your most recent one about taking DP off the roadmap.

[admin]

Sorry for the late post - I didn't see your most recent one about taking DP off the roadmap.

No problem. I'm sure there will be more of them, but maybe not as many as before.

I guess that more than 95% of all computer users that have an idea about what a file is (which is maybe 10% of all users) use Windows Explorer for file management. So much about core features... (IMHO!)

[KyferEz]

Don, I guess you don't have thousands of 700MB-2GB files filling up 10 different hard drives and trying to manage storage issues either???

It gets VERY difficult to manage the file system with all those drives, especially when we add a new drive and have to rearrange large numbers of files that may or may not have duplicates from users forgetting where files were originally stored, which are often named differently but otherwise identical.

You have a different usage than I or others here. Please do not attempt to dismiss my(our) needs simply because it does not correspond to your usage patterns. Our patterns of use are drastically different.

If you are going to be bull-headed and take DP off the roadmap, never to do it, I think we all should be bull-headed. THUS I DEMAND DUAL PANE and would recommend others to subsequently demand it as well.

[KyferEz]

I guess that more than 95% of all computer users that have an idea about what a file is (which is maybe 10% of all users) use Windows Explorer for file management. So much about core features... (IMHO!)

And 99% of statistics are made up. If you really want to know, do a survey, don't guess. Otherwise I am willing to guess that 99.9% of the people want a dual pane option. The 0.1% not wanting it is you!!!

Travis

[KyferEz]

This is a compromise solution but does not enter the trauma of dual pane!

I found a better way: I took DP off the roadmap. Sorry, folks, but I want to close this discussion for good. You'll find DP file managers everywhere you go. Here is multi-tab.

Period.

What makes you think this will close the discussion? It simply makes existing users angry, and makes potential buyers look elsewhere. I'm going to have a bad day now; you've gone and got my blood pressure up.

I'm | | <- that close to asking for a refund... I don't want it yet...

[j_c_hallgren]

It does seem that this is useful to a lot of people. Is this the only 'real' benefit of having two lists side by side? If yes then maybe the solution is not to go dual pane but have a compare folders routine in XY.

A compare would be, IMO, an extra enhancement beyond the basic DP, which is useful in other situations also...like folks who are converting in from another DP product because of XY's other unique features, and who are using it for drag&drop "feel good" confirmation.

In such a routine the folders are selected and then XY throws up a NEW window with the two list views side by side. It could of course be enhanced to highlight differences etc.

As I described in my written list analogy, my compare needs requiring DP are most often those which just cannot be done programatically, as there is nothing in files that is similar enough to compare on...dates differ, sizes differ, names differ...

This is a compromise solution but does not enter the trauma of dual pane!

As stated, I see this as above and beyond DP, so it wouldn't avoid anything, IMO, except that if we had DP, then the next user request would likely be for a compare, as I now do via xplorer2 on occasion...

This is a compromise solution but does not enter the trauma of dual pane!

I found a better way: I took DP off the roadmap. Sorry, folks, but I want to close this discussion for good. You'll find DP file managers everywhere you go. Here is multi-tab.

Period.

What makes you think this will close the discussion? It simply makes existing users angry, and makes potential buyers look elsewhere.

I agree with Travis/KyferEz here...Yes, I know that DP is against your principles, but remember that a primary goal of writing software to be sold to public as this is, is to provide what the typical user wants or they will select another product...and do you know exactly how many potential users have skipped XY because of the lack of even the most basic of DP? I don't think so...none of us do...because they'd find XY, read the description, see no DP, and go elsewhere...

If you do want to increase your sales and customer base (which you should, I think), having some sort of DP would (IMHO) have a measureable effect that would make up for the effort...yes, scripting is nice, but I think DP would have a much greater sales result.

As much as I love XY, I really hate having to use xplorer2 for those other tasks! And I'm sure there are many others who may not be regulars here who have similar opinions. I urge you to reconsider this decision as it's likely the most common reason for abandoned sales.

[jacky]

And 99% of statistics are made up. If you really want to know, do a survey, don't guess. Otherwise I am willing to guess that 99.9% of the people want a dual pane option. The 0.1% not wanting it is you!!!

Well, I'm sure others don't feel the need for DP either. I for one don't need one, and I am sad to see you excluded me in your bogus stats

To be honest, I really do not understand why people use such a set up in their daily life of file management.
While, yes, I can understand the occasional work of having to do compare-based tasks where such a thing could be useful, but as a regular/daily thing it looks to me like a gigantic waste of space.

What makes you think this will close the discussion? It simply makes existing users angry, and makes potential buyers look elsewhere. I'm going to have a bad day now; you've gone and got my blood pressure up.

Discussion is closed because DP ain't coming, so stop wondering how & when it'll happen, it won't.

DP was never "promised" or anything, Don never hide his feelings towards it, and even the Roadmap is, as it states IIRC, just an indication of what may come, it's not a promise, nothing is guaranteed.

We all trust Don in the way he runs things, that's how he got XY to be the fantastic app that it is now, and surely he'll find his way to make it even better tomorrow. And no, DP does not have to be there.

(And, IMHO, one thing that definitely won't change things a bit, is "threats".)

remember that a primary goal of writing software to be sold to public as this is, is to provide what the typical user wants or they will select another product...

hmm.. that could be one way to look at it. We all love XY for what Don made it, which is a very special and unique application. If, as it's been said before, Don is an artist, one thing that would definitely ruin his art is to cave in to commercial pressure and go against his "beliefs", opening a can of worm, just to please the masses. Just because (it seems) a lot of, or even most, people want one thing, it does not mean it's the good, or even a right thing to do.

I have my own workflow & beliefs as well, and I do not think either that DP required for XY.

I could agree that a "compare feature" that would list two folders and show their content side by side could be nice. It could work with the two list "synched" together (when it comes to scrollign, etc); It could give users the ability to preset for each files an action (delete, move/copy to the "other side", etc), feature to automatically define such actions based on rules according to names, dates, etc, or be done manually, etc

It could turn to be useful, yes, I think so. But maybe other things could be much better, like Scripting, Dropstack, etc And as Don said many times : if you want DP and nothing but DP, there's about two billion file managers that do that out there.
If you want more, if you want another approach to your file management, one that I consider to be better & more powerful, more Zen maybe, then XY is here for you.

Sometimes, it's good not to be like everyone else, because it makes you stand out in a crowd. And if you have something not only different but also better to offer (which I believe XY does), at least to some, it's all for the better, isn't it?

Damn, that was a long post I think, All Apologies.

To sum up : I don't care about DP, I'm with Don, I trust him, I love XY!

[bergfex]

Great post, jacky! I agree 100%.

[Jeff Bellune]

Sometimes, it's good not to be like everyone else, because it makes you stand out in a crowd. And if you have something not only different but also better to offer (which I believe XY does), at least to some, it's all for the better, isn't it?

But Multi-tab isn't unique to XY. The facet of multi-tab that makes XY stand out from other file managers is Don's reluctance (and now refusal) to include DP as well.

DOpus has both DP and Multi-tab. The multi-tab implementation in DOpus is slightly different than XY, but they are very close in function.

DOpus tabs can be locked, and in different ways, just like XY's tabs can be locked in different ways.

DOpus tabs can "go home" just like XY's tabs.

DOpus tabs "open on hover", just like XY's tabs.

DOpus can have multiple tabs in each of the dual panes - something that XY can't do because there are no dual panes.

If Don wants to keep XY as his magnum opus, and that is more important to him than anything else, then I'm all for him refusing to add DP. But if he wants to sell software, then he needs to add DP. Don said it himself:

You'll find DP file managers everywhere you go.

Excuse me, but there's a reason for that! There are enough other features in XY that are compelling enough to make it "stand out in a crowd", but Multi-tab isn't one of them.

JMNSHO,

-Jeff

[j_c_hallgren]

If Don wants to keep XY as his magnum opus, and that is more important to him than anything else, then I'm all for him refusing to add DP. But if he wants to sell software, then he needs to add DP. Don said it himself:

You'll find DP file managers everywhere you go.

Excuse me, but there's a reason for that! There are enough other features in XY that are compelling enough to make it "stand out in a crowd", but Multi-tab isn't one of them.

After reading the comments from others after my last, I can understand that jacky and bergflex feel it's not needed, but I also think Jeff has a point...DP isn't considered a extra feature, but as a baseline/core feature for anyone coming from those other products, so it's the additional unique features that would make XY still stand out and make it desirable for potential buyers/users...

Ok, so jacky doesn't see the need for it in his work, and most all of the time I don't either, but when I have those tasks to do, I just have to resort to x2 and it's kind of like...abandoning your current family to go off with an prior spouse for the weekend..ok, so that may be a stretch, but i just like staying in XY!

[serendipity]

Wow! Thats a lot of talk abt DP.
My personal opinion is:
WARNING: I have rarely used DP, therefore it could well be that my opinions are partly influenced by my non-addiction to DP.

I have and do a lot of file managing with hundreds of GBs (1060 GB to be precise) for past 4 years. Before I discovered XY it was hell for me but later everything was easily manageable and smooth. In those years i have hardly needed a DP setup to compare my files. I have always relied on F7 (and post CKS its `) which is quite good at comparing visually. I know it can be hard on your fingers but i would find it much easier to look at the same list than looking left and right all the time.
Lets be practical, if it were <30 files i can understand visual comparison, but what would one do if there were thousands of files in a list? Use visual comparison? thats a joke, what is the purpose of automation then?
I understand that for those using DP its more of a convenience and habit than real file comparison. No matter how well you visual compare there is always a possibility of error. But with automatic compare (trust-the-machine) setup you can be sure that you did not miss a thing (again think beyond 30 files).
I know XY doesnt have a compare function but one can always search both tabs and in my opinion the search tab (which can be sorted based on what you are looking for) gives a lot of info already about a lot of things which need to be compared. additionally find dupes and sync are on roadmap and those will make things even more easier.

@DON: some enhancements to search tab would help:
1)different colors for different paths,
2) quickly filter-out a path,

One key toggle for switching between two tabs (not paths/location) or have an option to make alt+tab go to recently used tab. this is very intuitive in tabbed browsing.

To sum up, i have no problems people using DP but to me there are several other ways already for file comparison (which i do, not so frequently) and XY certainly has ways to do them. Again, visual comparison might not be all that useful with thousands of files (multiplied by size, date and other attributes that need confirmation).

My 2 cents. Time for lunch.

PS: on a light note, since scripts are here try copy pasting several times "::#1018::#1019" onto AB. Its great fun. I wish I could pause and control the speed.

[KyferEz]

Well, I'm sure others don't feel the need for DP either. I for one don't need one, and I am sad to see you excluded me in your bogus stats

To be honest, I really do not understand why people use such a set up in their daily life of file management.
While, yes, I can understand the occasional work of having to do compare-based tasks where such a thing could be useful, but as a regular/daily thing it looks to me like a gigantic waste of space.

I didn't say others wouldn't feel the need for DP. What I meant was that the only one who didn't want the feature at all was him. You wouldn't object if the feature was added, would you?

It's isn't a daily need for me. It's occasional, but often enough I want it in XY.

[KyferEz]

I understand that for those using DP its more of a convenience and habit than real file comparison. No matter how well you visual compare there is always a possibility of error. But with automatic compare (trust-the-machine) setup you can be sure that you did not miss a thing (again think beyond 30 files).

But, as jc has *repeatedly* mentioned: A script will not work when files have no common attributes with which to compare them. It also doesn't work well when the common attributes are all different for different groups of files. I have many terabytes of drives, hundreds of folders, each with several hundred files in them - most of them are varying types of media files. Often a partial folder will be moved to a new location since a drive is nearly full. Then sometimes duplicates are created which MUST be manually weeded out so-as not to accidentally overwrite the better version (which may actually be the older file). MANUAL comparison is the only way to do it. On occasion, files must be opened and looked at to determine the better one. This is not common, but it does occasionally happen and must be dealt with. XY is not efficient for doing this.

If there was a compare folders feature in XY which would list contents of both folders side by side, similar to how Kdiff3 does with text files, ( http://kdiff3.sourceforge.net ), and it would scroll both file lists simultaneously, I would be very happy with that. But that requires two panes, and coding that is MORE difficult to do that than simply give us dual pane.

FYI: I have not used a dual pane browser in a very long time. I bought XY and have stuck to it, despite my needs. Why? Because I didn't understand (and still don't) Don's aversion to DP and was sure he'd come around when it became apparent that many wanted DP. I mean, it even says on his front webpage "users are taken seriously." I guess this exception won't be listed on that page, and that users are taken seriously Except when Don doesn't like the idea.

I do admit that I was wrong to expect this aversion of DP to change. THIS WHOLE DP THING IS THE TYPE OF ISSUE THAT DEPICTS WHY I DISLIKE BUYING SOFTWARE - especially software that doesn't allow user-created plugins. Serves me right for trying to do the right thing and buying it...

Don, it's a great piece of software, could be awesome, and I hope you do well with it, but I won't be using it anymore unless some good method of visual folder comparison becomes available. I don't want a refund, just in case you do ever decide to change some years in the future; I won't hold my breath, but I'll check back from time to time. Just know that today you lost a devote XY user. I may not have been active in the forums, but I did recommend XY any chance I got... I'm sorry we (users such as I) couldn't come to an agreement with you.

Sincerely,
Travis