XYplorer Beta Club

Perhaps it might be helpful if WE NEW USERS post questions when stumped. Maybe NOT go heavily thru Wiki. Not yet. Try to use without reading up to any hugely large extent. Learn from newbs what they encounter when starting to use. Not expect them to read lots before making use of the product. To my mind: Wiki should be a reference. A newbie HELP is needed and a Forum Spot For Newbs might help.

(For one thing, so much verbage is daunting when new IF A PERSON ISN'T A TECHIE...unless it's laid out in baby steps.) Don't we want XY to market to non-techies, too? And people who don't have tons of free time to spend reading? Many people want to replace Windows Explorer and just get on with using, as much as possible.
With that in mind, maybe we need a Newbie Corner. We newbs who have learned a little already can perhaps help the other newbs to a large extent. If a really techie person came along with questions, he/she could be referred to Wiki or other part of forum for more advanced help.

That might serve a few purposes:

Would make all newbies feel welcome and among fellow newbs, be they techie or not.

Would maybe help other newbies learn quickly.

Would make a more active forum, which encourages NEW folks to come on-board. (My belief: active forum encourages purchases.)

Would help developer discover areas that are most confusing (in order to remedy that in some future build). Make the product as intuitive as possible, if that is desired. (I like intuitive software. XY has so many wonderful tricks and uses...that may not be possible most of the time.)

Would help Wiki writers see where new users first meet with confusion, if any (and therefore, write more to clarify those areas...or organize in ways that walk people thru even better than presently).


Perhaps it would be nice to create a new Forum category: New User Chat ...
Something like that?

What I'm thinking is: eventually, patterns might develop...and a list of Newbie Tricks and Treats or Newbie Answers might be worked up and posted for new users.

Just thoughts my darlings....

So many great things about XY, so little time....

Example, as happened to me today. I am quickly using XY as I work on some personal project.

Ouch! I keep hitting (one click accidentally) on Catalog...and it opens a tab or an url.... THAT I DON'T WANT OPENED.

But I am busy. I think to self: how the heck do I set those to only open on DOUBLE CLICK?

No time to look up the info.

Then later, I decide to add some things to catalog. I KNOW how to add things...I start adding them...but they need a new CATEGORY *SECTION* TITLE...but DANG IT... I've forgotten how....

IF I were to post those questions, we would all learn together...us newbs. And it would spur more newbs to get involved in the questions and answers.

Users helping users.

It would help show stumbling blocks for newbs...things that might need highlighting in HELP or Wiki.

Hi!!

Quite interesting whatever you have mentioned here. Because, I realize going thru those things and to my experience best way to learn is to play around. I understand you are busy and but good way to start as Don mentioned somewhere is to do right-clicks. They have lots of information. For example when you right-click on any item on the catalog you see several options of what you can do with them.
And to answer your questions,
1) clicking anywhere in the catalog with definitely open a tab or perform an action depending on what you click on. The only exception is categories where clicking doesnt do anything. You might already learn that right-clicking category gives different options than right-clicking items other than categories.
Message: you cant set catalog to work only for double-click. When you click something is bound to happen.

2. Again adding something to catalog? try right-clicking on catalog and you will find more than one way to add something here.

For sure, i will try and consider helping newbies in a non-technical way in future. To be frank I like doing it. I was thinking of having video tutorials and put them on youtube or something. I am not sure how much of a work is that. I have to think about it.

till then. have fun playing with XY.

Hi Surrender.

I have done right clicking and lots of playing around. HOURS. I have had an absolute BLAST! (And Wiki.)

My brain must be very slow to catch on. <hitting self upside head>

I know how to add to catalog. It's just the segment I need to relearn how to title. Segment Title. Not the actual category link, exe, etc. I've tried right clicking and none of the words seem to do it right now for me.

That's why I say: If Catalog Segment Title might make it more clear to user when right clicking, then perhaps words on drop down might be changed. (Course I still don't know what present words are or where located.) I AM A PAIN IN THE ARSE, I suppose. HAHA <sorry>

I can't think what to enter in Search that might find that topic for me. Catalog Segment Titles...How to Add Them probably won't be found. On the other hand, if it's a constant that newbs can't figure out, then maybe it needs either a better name or to be somewhere in a FAQ and on Wiki for a newb to read. Looks to me like when right-clicking on Catalog, many in drop down are similar. I can't find Adding Topic or Segment Title.

Ok, you have answered my question. (Thanks). Single-click is only thing presently coded for Catalog. Well, it's making me slightly crazy. I keep doing it. Programs open, webpages open, tabs open. I am out of control.
Wouldn't recoding it to Double Click make it safer for goof balls like me?
Thanks again for responding and helping.

Ohhh video would be cool. Or other aids. Hmmmm.

[Edited to say: Add New Catagory, found at right click, is how to change segment title in Catalog. Ok but it looks so much like all the other 'add catagory' things. New Category Section Title or New Category Header or New Header would differentiate it more.... OR am I so new I've not got a grip yet? It could happen. ]

For tutorials, a friend uses this program:

http://www.debugmode.com/wink/

Well, I have nothing against a "section for newbie" I think, but actually I'm not sure i would vote for it either.

Let me try to explain:
First off, I believe newbies are already welcome here. Like everyone here, except maybe for Don, I was one at one time, and I do think new users, whether they're techie or not, are always welcomed on those forums, by everyone.
Although I understand the idea of what you're saying, I think it could have a side effect, it could be read as such: newbee & non-techie please stay apart, you don't belong with us.

What I mean is, why should there be a forum for new users? They have a wish, bug reports, or simply a question? Just ask. Could be a very easy question, could be an awesome idea, doesn't matter if you're techie or not, or how long you've been using XY.
This is a friendly community that has always been opened & willing to help others, regardless of how much they know about XY or computers in general.
I'm not sure having "them" aside, like they were not worthy enough to be amongst other users, would be such a nice thing...


I'm also not a fan of the "you got a question, just ask here first!" way to go. I know that as a new user you might feel that it's the easiet way, and if it happens we'll be happy to help/answer of course, but encouraging it isn't a good idea IMHO.

You have a question, first read the help, and/or the wiki. People took time to write those exactly for that. An active & friendly community is a great thing, doesn't mean it should be "abused".

What I'm trying to say here is - and I was reading something about that not so long ago, don't remmeber where though - some people do feel that others owe them something, that they must help them.
That is simply not the case, and the minimum a community can ask is that everyone understands that, and if one has a question, don't go first with "I am not gonna search for an answer, I'll just ask them, they have to reply me"

Once again, I have nothing against a new user coming in & asking questions that are, to a regular XY user, very easy/newbie like. Especially since what is obvisou to one that uses XY every day can be far from obvious to the new comer, but what I don't really like or want to encourage is the idea that if one needs something, he shouldn't even read the help/wiki, or search the forum, but simply go make yet another post in the newbie section asking the already answered dozen of times question...

Add New Catagory, found at right click, is how to change segment title in Catalog. Ok but it looks so much like all the other 'add catagory' things. New Category Section Title or New Category Header or New Header would differentiate it more....

Yes, "segment title" are actually called Categories because that's what they are. I mean, with a title, but also colors, etc, not only category headers or titles. For example, each category can be collapsed, like a folder on Tree, that's why you can't really call them "headers", they're not just separators, they're more

But I agree something looks a bit odd actually, I think it is because we have first the Add Item menus, then the Add Category ones. Doesn't really sounds logical, does it?
I'd suggest to move those two (Add/Import Category) so we get first the Categories, then the Items. Makes more sense, if only because one needs to first create a category before adding items into it!

badams007 wrote:Perhaps it might be helpful if WE NEW USERS post questions when stumped...

Yes! I like the idea of the Newbie Corner. Not as a ghetto for beginners but as an important source of information. The first impression is the most important. And only Newbies have first impressions.

I would have replied sooner, but an unexpected nap came first!
Anyway...First, as my background is not the typical one here, having worked with computers in one way or another since 1975, when I started using a time-sharing remote system using teletypes (yes, those ancient things!)...and then "PC's" since 1977 or so (yes, before IBM and Windows!)...but...even I sometimes have difficulty figuring out how to do something in XY, or what a feature is called! So I try and help out newer users as much as I can given my time limitations.

That being said, I'll agree that having a new users sub-forum might not be such a good thing, as it might/would encourage repetitive "how do I do xxx?" threads too much...I believe we have a VERY friendly group of XY'ers here, and we'll try to help anyone...my only issue sometimes is when someone appears to have not searched forum at all, especially when a very unique term is involved, before starting a new thread.

When the text involved is common words, then a search is quite unproductive often, as results are too numerous...been there, done that!

So...how do we handle this problem? I'd be more inclined to have a sub-area of wiki that might be more tailored to newbies, as any entries there could then be tweaked easily...and it lends itself to inclusion of more JPG's that would also help..."1 pix = 1K words"...

Any newbie, such as yourself could be VERY helpful in creating this, so it doesn't get TOO techie, and we so-called 'experts' could monitor it to make sure that it's technically accurate...there could be a set of FAQ's there geared more to new non-techie users, so the other FAQ's could be more for those folks like me who are already on a "higher" level...

Update: In some (many?) cases, all that may be needed is an easier to understand or easy to locate pointer to other existing wiki entries...the real advantage of the wiki compared to forum is that info is always right there and not buried in some thread/post from two months ago...maybe "XY for newbies" sub-page that would be prominently visible on main page?

How does that sound, Brenda? maybe? Are you willing to help? Hope so!

Isn't Tips, Tricks and Q&A this kinda section already?

admin wrote:

badams007 wrote:Perhaps it might be helpful if WE NEW USERS post questions when stumped...

Yes! I like the idea of the Newbie Corner. Not as a ghetto for beginners but as an important source of information. The first impression is the most important. And only Newbies have first impressions.

Rethinking this: as others said, a Newbie Corner here in the forum would just invite repetition of old questions.
A better format would probably be a Newbie FAQ right on the homepage -- and it should not be larger than 10 questions I believe, else the program is not newbie friendly...

So, let those questions come, newbies!

If I understood Brenda correctly, I think its not the questions themselves but the usage of words which makes understanding XY daunting.
I think there needs to be a "Glossary" section to define certain things else for newbies it is quite hard to understand posts.
Once the technical definitions are clear its easy to understand posts.

surrender wrote:If I understood Brenda correctly, I think its not the questions themselves but the usage of words which makes understanding XY daunting.
I think there needs to be a "Glossary" section to define certain things else for newbies it is quite hard to understand posts.
Once the technical definitions are clear its easy to understand posts.

Ach so? Maybe I should read more then every 3rd line ... my brain is CKS-ed anyway.

How about a "newbie mode" that activates by default and can be turned off with a flag in the ini (or turned on with a flag if that's better for performance...) ?

This would provide more mouse overs or even a little starting tutorial inside XY?

lukescammell wrote:How about a "newbie mode" that activates by default and can be turned off with a flag in the ini (or turned on with a flag if that's better for performance...) ?

This would provide more mouse overs or even a little starting tutorial inside XY?

Do you have the impression I'm bored and looking for something to do to kill time?

admin wrote:A better format would probably be a Newbie FAQ right on the homepage -- and it should not be larger than 10 questions I believe, else the program is not newbie friendly...

Maybe we could somewhat track what are typical questions (via a poll on some threads) and then develop those into addendums for the Help file so one could have access to it without Net access?

The number of questions that one expects to see in a Newbie FAQ, IMO, really depends on the product involved...and for XY, which is a complex product, having more than that in various categories wouldn't deter me from a product...it would actually make me more interested in it...ok, so I wasn't the typical newbie user, but there WERE things about XY that I didn't quite follow at first...so what about someone with less background? And would you expect only 10 questions in a FAQ for something like PhotoShop? (Not that XY is THAT complex, but used as example)

I agree that a better glossary would have helped, as XY uses some unique terms.

I don't think a newbie mode would be useful...just more code overhead! Better docs in any form, such as Help/wiki/forum would be more valuable, as we could use pix or maybe even some videos...