XYplorer Beta Club

I've said this before, but I find the View menu intimidating. If I still find it scary after using XYplorer this long, what does a first-time user think?

I'm also confused about whether to look for an option in the View menu or the Configuration window. Some options in Configuration are view-related (most of the General and Advanced tabs), and some options in the View menu (esp. the third section) seem to be things people wouldn't want to change very often. There doesn't seem much rationale for choose one or the other, you just have to remember.

I suggest at least the third section of the View menu be moved to Configuration. Most of the first section could be moved too. The View menu really is too big and scary, it doesn't fit on 640x480.

While I'm at it, how about moving the configuration section in the File menu to the Configuration window as well?

Yes, I agree.

Chris Wood wrote:There doesn't seem much rationale for choose one or the other, you just have to remember.

I don't know of a general theory of configuration interface organization, but I think most would agree with this: less used options should go to the config window, often used ones to the main window's menu. But there's a problem: different users, different usage.

Chris Wood wrote:I suggest at least the third section of the View menu be moved to Configuration. Most of the first section could be moved too. The View menu really is too big and scary, it doesn't fit on 640x480.

Third section: tree and list style yes, but the others? First section??
I already had thought about moving most of the first section into "Layout >", how would that be for a start? And I have never been happy with the "Always on top" command. It does not really belong here, but where else should it go??

Chris Wood wrote:While I'm at it, how about moving the configuration section in the File menu to the Configuration window as well?

No. Doesn't make sense to me.

Since, the menu bar is long enough and anyway the address bar, toolbar and tabs dont fit next to the menu thing, you can have more menus like options (for eg. task manager has 'always on top' in a menu called options). Why not have a 8th menu and make use of that gray horizontal space.

surrender wrote:Since, the menu bar is long enough and anyway the address bar, toolbar and tabs dont fit next to the menu thing, you can have more menus like options (for eg. task manager has 'always on top' in a menu called options). Why not have a 8th menu and make use of that gray horizontal space.

Yeah, could have the "Layout" submenu as a new top-level menu. But we'd have to consider what else should go in there, ie. should Show Columns go in View or Layout? When questions with somewhat arbitrary answers like that arise, something is wrong... the answer should be intuitive, otherwise the user will be asking it too. So on second thought a Layout menu may be a bad idea.

admin wrote:

Chris Wood wrote:I suggest at least the third section of the View menu be moved to Configuration. Most of the first section could be moved too. The View menu really is too big and scary, it doesn't fit on 640x480.

Third section: tree and list style yes, but the others? First section??
I already had thought about moving most of the first section into "Layout >", how would that be for a start? And I have never been happy with the "Always on top" command. It does not really belong here, but where else should it go??

If it's okay to move Tree Style & List Style, why not Size Column Format, Date Column Format and Font? Apart from Age, none of these have keyboard shortcuts (suggesting their rare usage). I can't imagine someone regularly changing them - and if someone did, wouldn't they have asked for a keyboard shortcut? They're all things that you change never or a few times until you settle with a configuration you like. You never want to be changing them often.

So aren't they all better off in Configuration? With the exception of Age, which can go in top-level View.

As for "Always on top", most applications I've seen put it either in Configuration (for programs where you're not likely to change the setting), or more appropriately for XYplorer, in the Window submenu (ie. right-click on titlebar, taskbar, or system-tray icon). In fact I'm now using PowerMenu so I already have the option there. (PS. I also use PowerMenu to minimize XYplorer on startup).

admin wrote:

Chris Wood wrote:While I'm at it, how about moving the configuration section in the File menu to the Configuration window as well?

No. Doesn't make sense to me.

Well, really, how often do people load configurations? Seems to me only a small proportion of users ever load/save configurations, let alone do it often.

My rule is, if it would be silly to have a keyboard shortcut for it, and it's not a dynamic item, and it's not in the Help menu, it probably doesn't belong in the Menus. Smaller menus = greater newbie comfort = first-time users more likely to like and stick with product (so long as you don't make any major functionality sacrifices). Of course, smaller menus are also more usable in accordance with Fitts' law, so they're good for experienced users as well.

If you really want to see how friendly you can make it, try following the lead of the Gaim 2 developers: Be overly aggresive in menu-reduction, and see what the beta-testers complain about. Then you'll know what really needs to stay. A big cull to Configuration also reduces the ambiguity I talked about in the first paragraph.

I'm a usability nut, in case you haven't noticed :p

Chris Wood wrote:I'm a usability nut, in case you haven't noticed :p

I have. And short answer to your long post: very interesting! I cannot react now, because step-by-step: catalog first, then the rest.

I think the line between Layout and View can be cut quite clearly: Layout concerns the app's interface (what controls is shown where and how large), whereas View concerns the display of the controls' contents.

So I'm pro a new Layout menu!

I think I follow most of this post...and agree that the curr View menu is quite long so moving some opts to a Layout menu makes sense...moving them to Config puts some of these a bit too removed from common access...

Yes, some of these may be rarely changed but having them on a easily accessable menu keeps the knowledge (of where the value is) fresh...Some items in config are set once and never changed...so having those type there is plausible but others that may change for special situations, I think, are better in a menu.

But should Show Columns go in View or Layout? Seems like it's about Layout to me, but then it is also about the contents of the view pane...

Chris Wood wrote:But should Show Columns go in View or Layout? Seems like it's about Layout to me, but then it is also about the contents of the view pane...

It's layout of the List, but not layout of the app/window.

Well anyway that particular item doesn't matter too much since the usual way to do it is to right-click on a column header.

Now that I added the new top menu Layout, it came to my mind that the typical menu for exactly this is "Window"!! hey

Hah, good point! The "Window" menu is usually next to the Help menu, but don't feel like you have to follow that convention...

Chris Wood wrote:Hah, good point! The "Window" menu is usually next to the Help menu, but don't feel like you have to follow that convention...

As you see, I have already felt like doing so, and I think it looks very natural like this. Thanks for kicking me to brush up the View menu, it's much better now.

It is

I still reckon that second section would be nicer in Configuration. You don't want to see that stuff every day. There are enough menu-items to discover - I just noticed the List Management submenu!

It's not normal to explore menus, especially when they're big & complex...