XYplorer Beta Club

I finally had the chance to look at the new renaming behavior in v9.20.0006, and I have to say that I don't like it.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is this - if you make a selection, you're doing it to define which files you wish the next action to act upon. This new behavior overrides that intuitive behavior, and I think it's a mistake to do it that way.

Who selects files and *doesn't* intend their next action to act on those selected files?


I think this should be reverted to the prior behavior.

OK, I expected this. Let me right away turn the question around: Is there anybody who likes the new renaming behavior? (In a nutshell: F2 now always inline-renames the focused item and does not change any selections.)

I'm confused on what the new behavior actually is...
Is it just that now when you have 1 selected item and it isn't focused you enter rename mode for the focused instead of the selected item?

But for selection counts greater than 1 it doesn't seem any different.
Everything else seems the same to me.

TheQwerty wrote:I'm confused on what the new behavior actually is...
Is it just that now when you have 1 selected item and it isn't focused you enter rename mode for the focused instead of the selected item?

But for selection counts greater than 1 it doesn't seem any different.
Everything else seems the same to me.

Before, for selection counts greater than one F2 triggered Batch Rename on selected items, now inline-rename on focused item.

admin wrote:Before, for selection counts greater than one F2 triggered Batch Rename on selected items, now inline-rename on focused item.

That isn't the behavior I see in 9.20.0007, but then I have "MultipleRenameDefault" set to "r" and your changes don't seem to apply for selection counts greater than 1 when this tweak is enabled.

I think this new behavior is confusing and maybe even frustrating since the selection rectangle doesn't change focus. That said I could definitely see a use for a "Rename Focused" which would always rename the focused item and ignore/not touch the selection. I just wouldn't want it to be F2 by default.

I haven't used the new vers yet...but I had totally forgotten that there was a way to define which rename style applies when using F2 and multiple items selected...thanks TheQwerty for pointing out that tweak! Makes it even more valuable that we have a consolidated listing of all tweaks since there are a large number of them.

Also, how many times does one have something focused but not selected when you've got multi-items selected? For me, that's quite rare.

First i researched whats the issue. Here it is:

v9.20.0006 - 2010-06-22 20:39
* Menu File | Rename (in List) "F2": Now, always the focused item is
renamed, completely independent of the current selections. If you
want to rename the selected item(s) use Shift+F2 (Batch Rename).
This means you now can rename individual items out of a group of
selected items without renaming the other selected items and
without changing any selections.
I'm aware that this behavior differs from Explorer. Time will tell
if it is really better... it's an experiment.

Till now i did
- select one file > press F2
- select a few files > right click > rename

Now i sampled in current and older XY how it works if i select a few files and press F2.





I think i don't understand why one would select a few files and then rename one of them?

Anyway, since i can use the tweak in the XYplorer.ini

; Tweak: Set to b|r|s|k|e
    to open Batch[Default]|RegExp|SearchReplace|KeepChars|SetExtension
    when calling Rename on multiple files.
MultipleRenameDefault=

i can set it to the old behaviour (MultipleRenameDefault=b)
or use now Shift+F2
it is no matter for me what is the default.
Like it's now i have any possibilities and... maybe... it could be from use in time.

TheQwerty wrote:

admin wrote:Before, for selection counts greater than one F2 triggered Batch Rename on selected items, now inline-rename on focused item.

That isn't the behavior I see in 9.20.0007, but then I have "MultipleRenameDefault" set to "r" and your changes don't seem to apply for selection counts greater than 1 when this tweak is enabled.

I think this new behavior is confusing and maybe even frustrating since the selection rectangle doesn't change focus. That said I could definitely see a use for a "Rename Focused" which would always rename the focused item and ignore/not touch the selection. I just wouldn't want it to be F2 by default.

True, the tweak overwrites the default behavior.

What should happen on F2 when one item is selected and another one focused (but not selected)?

admin wrote:What should happen on F2 when one item is selected and another one focused (but not selected)?

Can't you use some magic at run-time to determine and do exactly what the user is thinking?

I feel the most comfortable method is to have the action always apply to the selection. If there is no selection then the focused item becomes selected and the target of the action. This is very similar to how Open currently works, with the exception of working on the focused item when there is no selection.

You could add a "Rename Focused Item" command to enter that item's inline rename mode but there's a number of complications that arise from this. What should happen when the user leaves rename mode by clicking another item or using tab? It would also look odd and be hard to distinguish that the item being renamed is not part of the current selection.


EDIT: For the astute - yes I did change my opinion on a "Rename Focused Item" command. Thinking it over led me to a very convoluted mess that revealed that the better option is to just force the user to use selections.

After rethinking it I still find the new behavior clear, consequent, and logical. I will keep it as it is and maybe learn something about the people's expectations regarding inline rename when I release 9.30...

admin wrote:
What should happen on F2 when one item is selected and another one focused (but not selected)?

It should absolutely act on the selected item. The focused one should be completely ignored, as far as I'm concerned, because the selection is what happens as a result of the user's deliberate action.

Mesh wrote:

admin wrote:
What should happen on F2 when one item is selected and another one focused (but not selected)?

It should absolutely act on the selected item. The focused one should be completely ignored, as far as I'm concerned, because the selection is what happens as a result of the user's deliberate action.

"The focused one should be completely ignored" is against the very definition of focus. In Windows the focus is on the item that will be acted on. Everything out of focus should be ignored.

WHAT!!!

Select a number of items in Windows Explorer.
Move focus to another item.
Hit delete - what is deleted???

Forty-Two wrote:WHAT!!!

Select a number of items in Windows Explorer.
Move focus to another item.
Hit delete - what is deleted???

Select an item in Windows Explorer.
Move focus to another item.
Hit F2 - what is renamed?

Inline-Rename is a single-item operation. From its nature it does not fit with multi-selections (although WE makes it so in a quite non-intuitive way). If you want to rename the selected items in XY use Shift+F2. What's the problem?

admin wrote:
"The focused one should be completely ignored" is against the very definition of focus. In Windows the focus is on the item that will be acted on. Everything out of focus should be ignored.

If there are no selections, then the focused item is the one to use. But if there are selected items, they should take preference over any focused items, because the selected items will be the ones deliberately acted upon by the user. That's why.