Let's talk about Undo

[admin]

It's almost done.

Here's a minor usage question where I'd like to know your expectation.

There's an action log now where all your file operations are logged. Most of them can be undone later, but not Delete (no recycle) of course. Now imagine you move a file from A to B. The Undo button/command will be enabled and triggering it would undo the move. But you don't undo it. Instead your next action is to delete (no recycle) a file. What should now happen to the Undo button/command???

(1) It should be disabled because the last action cannot be undone.
(2) It should be enabled and clicking it should undo the last action that can be undone (in the example: the move)
(3) It should be enabled and clicking it should pop a message that says "the last action cannot be undone", and ask whether you want to undo the last action that can be undone.
(4) something else?

Thanks,
Don

[PeterH]

I don't know if I understand it right.

So let me say this: if I select undo, and if it will be done without a verification, I think it must be the very last action.
If the very last action cannot be undone, either nothing should happen, or better, I should be notified and asked.

Hope this is what you meant?

[admin]

I don't know if I understand it right.

So let me say this: if I select undo, and if it will be done without a verification, I think it must be the very last action.
If the very last action cannot be undone, either nothing should happen, or better, I should be notified and asked.

Hope this is what you meant?

Yes, thanks, this means you opt for option (3).

BTW, Explorer follows option (1). If you recycle a file, and then delete terminally another file, and then click Undo: the recycled file comes back, without any prompts or messages.
EDIT: sorry I meant Explorer follows option (2)!

[j_c_hallgren]

I'm thinking of maybe a Word/Excel/etc Undo type dropdown that shows what action will be undone and the one that can't be done is disabled...and if you just clicked on the icon in your described situation, yes, some sort of a pop-up would be best choice, I think.

I also think that a user selectable (on/off) pop-up confirm of what will be undone in all cases would be nice...after all, I have a delete confirm so an undo confirm is matching...right now, if I undo a delete from RB, I don't get a prompt and sometimes have accidently selected the wrong file and it thus gets put back and I don't recall where that was to re-delete it.

[TheQwerty]

I know Photoshop has a few actions that cannot be undone, and it typically warns you before committing them, but I don't recall how they then handle Undo. I can't check for another 8 hours, so maybe someone else can comment?

I'd assume that since you cannot undo the action you also cannot return to a state before that action was done, but that's a bit different from XY's situation.

I think I'd suggest number 3 because you can have the undo fail for other reasons (changes not tracked by XY, locations being removed, ...?).

[serendipity]

I don't know if I understand it right.

So let me say this: if I select undo, and if it will be done without a verification, I think it must be the very last action.
If the very last action cannot be undone, either nothing should happen, or better, I should be notified and asked.

Hope this is what you meant?

Yes, thanks, this means you opt for option (3).

BTW, Explorer follows option (1). If you recycle a file, and then delete terminally another file, and then click Undo: the recycled file comes back, without any prompts or messages.

I would also say (3) with the option of turning the popup off. That way both newbies and regulars will benefit from this.

[serendipity]

Since you said most of Undo has been done, I have a question:

Action history:
1) Moved a file
2) Renamed another file
3) Dropped a file in a catalog
4) Set minitree

Now, without undoing the actions 4,3 and 2, I want to undo only the moving part. Will it be possible to do that?

In other words, a non-sequential undo would be very useful. I have not come across any app that does this and wonder what the fuss is about?

[admin]

Since you said most of Undo has been done, I have a question:

Action history:
1) Moved a file
2) Renamed another file
3) Dropped a file in a catalog
4) Set minitree

Now, without undoing the actions 4,3 and 2, I want to undo only the moving part. Will it be possible to do that?

In other words, a non-sequential undo would be very useful. I have not come across any app that does this and wonder what the fuss is about?

Yes, XY allows non-sequential undo.

BTW, 3) and 4) are not logged actions. Undo is only about file operations.

[j_c_hallgren]

Now, without undoing the actions 4,3 and 2, I want to undo only the moving part. Will it be possible to do that?

In other words, a non-sequential undo would be very useful.

That's what I had posted about and I agree that a selectable choice of undo would be great as sometimes one may do a couple of further unrelated actions before you go and realize your "Oops!".

[admin]

I don't know if I understand it right.

So let me say this: if I select undo, and if it will be done without a verification, I think it must be the very last action.
If the very last action cannot be undone, either nothing should happen, or better, I should be notified and asked.

Hope this is what you meant?

Yes, thanks, this means you opt for option (3).

BTW, Explorer follows option (1). If you recycle a file, and then delete terminally another file, and then click Undo: the recycled file comes back, without any prompts or messages.

I would also say (3) with the option of turning the popup off. That way both newbies and regulars will benefit from this.

So when the popup is turned off, it would just act as option (2), right? (Which is also what Explorer does.)

[admin]

Now, without undoing the actions 4,3 and 2, I want to undo only the moving part. Will it be possible to do that?

In other words, a non-sequential undo would be very useful.

That's what I had posted about and I agree that a selectable choice of undo would be great as sometimes one may do a couple of further unrelated actions before you go and realize your "Oops!".

Yep, sure. This is already working here very nicely.

[jacky]

I think usually the "action log" wouldn't log all actions done, but all that can be undone. However it makes sense (IMO) to have Delete (n.r.) included on such a list, even though when looking at said list it should be indicated that they are not part of the undo process/can not be undone.

I think (2) makes sense in a way, and as you mentioned might be the expected way as it is the way WE does it. However, my personal pick would go for (1) because if the last action cannot be undone (while yet being part of the undo/action log) then the button that means (I assume) "undo last action" simply needs to be disabled.

However, I would also expect to have a way to access this action log, one way being through the little drop arrow on the right of the TB button, where one could click on any of the action listed to undo that action specifically. So in your example, while the button itself would be disabled*, clicking the arrow would allow to undo the move.

I'm just wondering, such a case, what would be better : disabled, or an icon that indicates undo can't be done, and maybe better than being disabled clicking it would then popup the log, as if we had clicked the little arrow. To allow to pick what to undo, and differentiate from when there's nothing to be undone (log empty), or the feature is disabled (assuming that's possible).

Yeah I think I like this idea better, so I'll pick (4) : click the button, and get the drop down menu listing the last actions. I assume then the delete would be listed (first), but disabled, so we'd know why we get this and could pick what to undo, all in one go without the trouble of a popup to click.

[j_c_hallgren]

I would also say (3) with the option of turning the popup off. That way both newbies and regulars will benefit from this.

And as I wrote, I would hope for a option to show pop-up in ALL cases, not just the last unavailable one.

jacky has also better described essentially what I was referring to...a menu of choices.

[serendipity]

I would also say (3) with the option of turning the popup off. That way both newbies and regulars will benefit from this.

So when the popup is turned off, it would just act as option (2), right? (Which is also what Explorer does.)

Yup.

[serendipity]

I'm just wondering, such a case, what would be better : disabled, or an icon that indicates undo can't be done, and maybe better than being disabled clicking it would then popup the log, as if we had clicked the little arrow. To allow to pick what to undo, and differentiate from when there's nothing to be undone (log empty), or the feature is disabled (assuming that's possible).

Yeah I think I like this idea better, so I'll pick (4) : click the button, and get the drop down menu listing the last actions. I assume then the delete would be listed (first), but disabled, so we'd know why we get this and could pick what to undo, all in one go without the trouble of a popup to click.

I think left click should be made to work like how other apps have it (undo last action). To undo something i dont want to click twice, i.e first click will pop up the the list and second click will undo. I would prefer that action to be assigned to right-click. my 2 cents.