Build 406 - Tab key for DP Swap ignores Tree

[admin]

If I get you right, you want the normal TAB to go to the inactive pane as well. Well, no problem. I only prevented this because Mesh said in another post that he expects this.

BTW, we also have F6. This currently cycles between AB, Tree, Catalog, and active pane.

[Gandolf]

I thought you'd get there in the end, it's just a pity it turned a bit sour in the middle.

[TheQwerty]

v7.90.0407 - 2009-06-04 15:07
* Now the normal TAB key also goes to the inactive pane.

If you turn on the commander style and then turn it off, this no longer works.
In fact it seems to reverse direction and ignores the inactive pane.

If you restart with commander style disabled it works properly.

EDIT: Actually I take that back, if you restart it almost works properly, but it does:
Address Bar -> Catalog -> IP (and contents) -> Tree -> Left/Top Pane -> Right/Bottom Pane.

I feel it should be doing:
Address Bar -> Nav Panel (Top to Bottom) -> IP (and contents) -> Left/Top Pane -> Right/Bottom Pane.

And even then I'm debating whether it should do "Left/Top -> Right/Bottom" or "Active -> Inactive".

[Mesh]

If I get you right, you want the normal TAB to go to the inactive pane as well. Well, no problem. I only prevented this because Mesh said in another post that he expects this.

Yes, and you already have the mechanism in place for both workflows. Just set it so that when you enable the tab key to swap panes, it includes the tree - and when you have it disabled, it only flips between the tree and active pane. That gives people the choice based on how they prefer to work.

[Demset]

I agree. I just tried out 407 - and while I like that the tab key now includes the tree, I think the configurations are a little skewed. The current normal behavior is what should be there when "TAB key swaps panes" is active. And when that option is unchecked, the tab key should only switch between the tree and active pane.

[admin]

I agree. I just tried out 407 - and while I like that the tab key now includes the tree, I think the configurations are a little skewed. The current normal behavior is what should be there when "TAB key swaps panes" is active. And when that option is unchecked, the tab key should only switch between the tree and active pane.

That's what it was yesterday. So we have at least 3 opinions here on what the TAB key should do in DP. And I thought the commander world is fossilized since 1984!

[admin]

v7.90.0407 - 2009-06-04 15:07
* Now the normal TAB key also goes to the inactive pane.

If you turn on the commander style and then turn it off, this no longer works.
In fact it seems to reverse direction and ignores the inactive pane.

If you restart with commander style disabled it works properly.

EDIT: Actually I take that back, if you restart it almost works properly, but it does:
Address Bar -> Catalog -> IP (and contents) -> Tree -> Left/Top Pane -> Right/Bottom Pane.

I feel it should be doing:
Address Bar -> Nav Panel (Top to Bottom) -> IP (and contents) -> Left/Top Pane -> Right/Bottom Pane.

And even then I'm debating whether it should do "Left/Top -> Right/Bottom" or "Active -> Inactive".

Yes, I noted the glitches. I hope the next version is finally perfecto!

[admin]

I feel it should be doing:
Address Bar -> Nav Panel (Top to Bottom) -> IP (and contents) -> Left/Top Pane -> Right/Bottom Pane.

And even then I'm debating whether it should do "Left/Top -> Right/Bottom" or "Active -> Inactive".

F6 does currently this:
Address Bar > Tree > List > Catalog.

Why do you think yours is better?

[Mesh]

I agree. I just tried out 407 - and while I like that the tab key now includes the tree, I think the configurations are a little skewed. The current normal behavior is what should be there when "TAB key swaps panes" is active. And when that option is unchecked, the tab key should only switch between the tree and active pane.

That's what it was yesterday. So we have at least 3 opinions here on what the TAB key should do in DP. And I thought the commander world is fossilized since 1984!

Actually no, yesterday (Build 406) worked like this:


TAB Option disabled: Switches between Tree and Active pane.

TAB Option enabled: Switches between the two panes ONLY.




What is being suggested is this:


TAB Option disabled: Switches between Tree and Active pane.

TAB Option enabled: Switches between Tree and all panes.

[admin]

I feel it should be doing:
Address Bar -> Nav Panel (Top to Bottom) -> IP (and contents) -> Left/Top Pane -> Right/Bottom Pane.

And even then I'm debating whether it should do "Left/Top -> Right/Bottom" or "Active -> Inactive".

F6 does currently this:
Address Bar > Tree > List > Catalog.

Why do you think yours is better?

I withdraw my question. I tried it and it is better.

[admin]

Actually no, yesterday (Build 406) worked like this:
TAB Option disabled: Switches between Tree and Active pane.
TAB Option enabled: Switches between the two panes ONLY.

What is being suggested is this:
TAB Option disabled: Switches between Tree and Active pane.
TAB Option enabled: Switches between Tree and all panes.

Ah I see, sorry.

Well, now we have:
TAB Option disabled: Switches between all focussable controls incl. Inactive pane.
TAB Option enabled: Switches between the two panes ONLY.
F6: Cycles Address Bar > Tree > Catalog > Active pane (from Tomorrow!)

[TheQwerty]

I withdraw my question. I tried it and it is better.

Too bad I already typed the response:

I feel it should be doing:
Address Bar -> Nav Panel (Top to Bottom) -> IP (and contents) -> Left/Top Pane -> Right/Bottom Pane.

And even then I'm debating whether it should do "Left/Top -> Right/Bottom" or "Active -> Inactive".

F6 does currently this:
Address Bar > Tree > List > Catalog.

Why do you think yours is better?

*shrugs* That's how my train of thought goes.


1) Address Bar: We have to start somewhere and this is the first focusable control in the window when present.
2) Nav Panel: The tree and catalog are members of this panel, so I view it as the next target (at least as long as it's left of the list panes).
2A) Top Pane of Nav Panel: We're allowed to make this either the Tree or Catalog, so whichever is on top should be first.
2B) Bottom Pane of Nav Panel: This seems the next logical step as I still view us as in the Nav Panel.

--- Now here I don't have a solid opinion. It could go circular down to the IP or straight over to the list panes, so consider 4 and 5 interchangable. (And yes I changed my mind from above.)

4) List Panes: This is my native reading order (and as XY is only available in English I think we can safely use this order).
--- Again I'm torn here, it could go either way.
4A.1) MRU Order: Active Pane -> Inactive Pane
4A.B) Reading Order: Left/Top Pane -> Right/Bottom Pane

5) Info Panes: This is the last focusable control in the window when present.
5A) There's a lot of controls, I only have the IP visible when needed, so I'm just going to accept the current order of controls within IP is acceptable.

That's the order that seems most logical to me. It's not perfect, it might not be entirely consistent, but when I press tab that's what I expect. (Now what you do with F6 is entirely up to you.)

EDIT: One thing that would help us all is if we had a script command or function to get the Focused control, and if Focus() got a few new options (Inactive Pane, Info Panel). Then it would be trivial for us to write our own focus cycling scripts. (You can do it now but you have to save the config to determine where focus is.)

[Demset]

Ah I see, sorry.

Well, now we have:
TAB Option disabled: Switches between all focussable controls incl. Inactive pane.
TAB Option enabled: Switches between the two panes ONLY.
F6: Cycles Address Bar > Tree > Catalog > Active pane (from Tomorrow!)

Other than Gandolf, I don't recall anyone else suggesting that the Tab key be used solely to swap panes. That being the case, I don't see why it can't be eliminated from the options we're discussing since you already have a command that does nothing but swap panes.

I'd like to see the configuration mesh suggested - I think it will be more useful to more people. That's my feelings on it, anyway.

[j_c_hallgren]

Other than Gandolf, I don't recall anyone else suggesting that the Tab key be used solely to swap panes. That being the case, I don't see why it can't be eliminated from the options we're discussing since you already have a command that does nothing but swap panes.

Well...Gandolf did present evidence that competing products work this way (Tab=swap pane only) so having that as one option would seem to be critical to winning over converts from other FM's as we all know they can't ever be trained to use another key ( ) that does that function.

And when working in that mode, maybe Shift+Tab could be used for the alternate Tree>List that we're used to? Just asking...

[admin]

Ah I see, sorry.

Well, now we have:
TAB Option disabled: Switches between all focussable controls incl. Inactive pane.
TAB Option enabled: Switches between the two panes ONLY.
F6: Cycles Address Bar > Tree > Catalog > Active pane (from Tomorrow!)

Other than Gandolf, I don't recall anyone else suggesting that the Tab key be used solely to swap panes. That being the case, I don't see why it can't be eliminated from the options we're discussing since you already have a command that does nothing but swap panes.

I'd like to see the configuration mesh suggested - I think it will be more useful to more people. That's my feelings on it, anyway.

The special "TAB swaps panes" setting is a welcome present for commander style users which are MANY in my impression.

A tab chain that just includes Tree and List pane and excludes all other controls is something I have never heard of. When now you say "Forget the standards, choose the good" (I think Mesh said something like that), you forget that "good" is a matter of taste, whereas standard is more of an objective fact (and is probably not that bad, or it would not be the standard -- yes, I know there are counter examples...).