Tabsets - Small Bugs & Wishes Thread

[PeterH]

Just one thing in advance: everything I say in this post applies to XY with unselected option "Save Settings on Exit"!
So it does not apply if "Save Settings on Exit" is checked, as is the XY-default.

What you say must be right: here is some misunderstanding! But in the moment I'm not sure what it is...

Now I thought about it several times, and am sorry to say: I was wrong! No misunderstanding here!

And, in my terms, you are wrong! (No offense! Just for clarification!) You said:

No, that was a misunderstanding. I did not change anything with regard to tab saving.

This can't be right! With unchecked "save settings on exit":
- before tabsets, the saved tabs never changed (apart from manually "Save Configuration")
- with tabsets, (for example) on every load the current tabset *including tabs* *is* changed!
You cannot say this is no change for saving tabs!

Frankly, I have difficulties thinking in the mindset of a disabled "Save settings on Exit".

That seems correct. So I'll try it another way - please read, maybe it explains something...

I would like another menu command: "Restart XY with new tabset(s)"
It should:
- ask for tabset(s)
- close XY (without save if "Save Settings on Exit" is unselected)
- and restart with above chosen tabset(s).
This does what I need! OK - it's a bit strange - but I would have to do this manually, provided that there would be options to start XY with selected tabsets.

I'm sure this could still have a better solution. This would mean that loading another tabset is something like an XY-restart *without saving*. (Remember: I talk of people having unselected "Save Settings"!)

After having thought a lot about the situation: unless you make it able to work this way, either I cannot use tabsets, or I have no value in unselecting "Save Settings on Exit".
(Very sad: as "don't Save Settings" is my way to go...)

By the way: the same would be for other tabsets. Imagine a tabset "Photos", preparing same tabs to access photos, including a tab with drive on a compact flash card. During use I would change the location of some tabs, maybe open others for special things, and so on - and then I load the tabset "Music". Oh - all the preparations for "Photos" are gone...
(You remember? I'm the type of "Don't save settings" - I really think this way!)

To me it seems you think that you can't make it in a way for people of type "Don't Save Settings", because they would not understand it if they were of type "Save Settings".

Something I'd like to know: are there people using unselected "Save Settings on Exit" that have no problems with "Load Tabset" overwriting some settings, especially the tabs and their locations? And if yes: why do they have unselected "Save Settings..."? (Maybe I'm a strange DontSaveSettings user? )

[admin]

And, in my terms, you are wrong! (No offense! Just for clarification!) You said:

No, that was a misunderstanding. I did not change anything with regard to tab saving.

This can't be right! With unchecked "save settings on exit":
- before tabsets, the saved tabs never changed (apart from manually "Save Configuration")
- with tabsets, (for example) on every load the current tabset *including tabs* *is* changed!
You cannot say this is no change for saving tabs!

Wrong. Download an old version (to prove that it has always been like this) from the freezer, do a search, then select another tab. The previous tab is saved to disk. Always. Independent of your settings.

[Edited for clarity.]

[PeterH]

And, in my terms, you are wrong! (No offense! Just for clarification!) You said:

No, that was a misunderstanding. I did not change anything with regard to tab saving.

This can't be right! With unchecked "save settings on exit":
- before tabsets, the saved tabs never changed (apart from manually "Save Configuration")
- with tabsets, (for example) on every load the current tabset *including tabs* *is* changed!
You cannot say this is no change for saving tabs!

Wrong. Download an old version (to prove that it has always been like this) from the freezer, do a search, close the search tab. It is saved to disk. Always, independent of your settings.

Found an installed test: V10.50.0010 - OK?
Started, unchecked "Save Settings", saved, closed.

Started again: only tab shown = Arbeitsplatz, info-panel is not open.(That's what I name "initial Config")
change to e:\
Open info-panel, click find, enter: "programme", Find Now
==> Search results tab opens, shows relevant entries.
At this point tested with and without explicite closing the Search Tab, found no difference
Close XY

Restart: the *only* tab points to Arbeitsplatz, no Search results tab there, no Info Panel shown. ("Initial Config")

I don't know what you wanted to say - this is what I wanted to say. And so it must be...

This is what I want: the only tab kept showing "Arbeitsplatz", and the search tab kept not being displayed - all as I had saved it. This is as I need it.
And as far as I understood my tests with the current version this is *unlike* the situation after I Load a Tabset.

[admin]

Sorry, my last post was a bit unclear. I said "close tab" but I meant to say "open another tab". Here's the corrected text:

Wrong. Download an old version (to prove that it has always been like this) from the freezer, do a search, then select another tab. The previous tab is saved to disk. Always. Independent of your settings.

[eil]

Don, i understand your point with "tabs are storing anyways", 'cause while i work i open them, change their location etc. but can you please explain, why if XY crashed, next time i start it, there will be only tabs i had since pre-last XY start, but not those i opened while last working time? aren't those tabs literally gone(?!), 'cause:
- there was no Save on Exit(which i have On)
+ i didn't use Tabs > Save while working
+ i didn't load any other tabset during last working time(so there was no auto-save before loading)
basically what i want to say = if none of these 3 options happen tabset shouldn't be saved, am i correct?


yet, thanks for adding title bar templates those will be very useful!.
but have few question here too
1- you forgot to add this to examples in Templates, or it won't be there?(if you think there is little place there i can propose how to reformat those )
2- i do understand why you added separate templates for 2 panels, still wouldn't it be more useful to have one <tabset>(or to have it as a 3rd variant) showing tabset name of currently active panel = even thought there are 2 of them, only one can be active anyways.. for showing path and changing it, no matter what tab/panel it is, this works well

[TheQwerty]

From what I can see the only real problem is that when opening/loading a tabset the changes to the current one are really saved.

While I get that data about the tabsets is constantly being saved, if that were truly the case then shouldn't this end with the user at <xypath>?

1. Fresh XY
2. Disable Save Settings on Exit
3. Save Settings
4. ::goto <xypath>;
5. Restart

Just like this:

1. Fresh XY
2. Disable Save Settings on Exit
3. Save Settings
4. ::goto <xypath>;
5. Tabsets -> New
6. Restart

Why is using "Save Settings on Exit" a mistake when determining if the current tabset should be saved before open/load-ing a new one?

[admin]

Don, i understand your point with "tabs are storing anyways", 'cause while i work i open them, change their location etc. but can you please explain, why if XY crashed, next time i start it, there will be only tabs i had since pre-last XY start, but not those i opened while last working time? aren't those tabs literally gone(?!), 'cause:
- there was no Save on Exit(which i have On)
+ i didn't use Tabs > Save while working
+ i didn't load any other tabset during last working time(so there was no auto-save before loading)
basically what i want to say = if none of these 3 options happen tabset shouldn't be saved, am i correct?

The logic of saving is also controlled by performance: I save only what's necessary to save. Now, a crash is generally an unplanned event. I develop to avoid crashes, not to colaborate with crashes. So when a crash happens, you get a the state of what has been saved up to that moment. This is probably all tabs that have been changed AND unselected (note that all this tab-saving ONLY concerns find tabs!), but not general pane data, like e.g. the number of tabs in the pane, or the make up of all non-find-tabs, or the name of the active pane set. These latter things are only saved on exit, or when explicitly saving settings, or on a tabset switch.

[admin]

1- you forgot to add this to examples in Templates, or it won't be there?(if you think there is little place there i can propose how to reformat those )
2- i do understand why you added separate templates for 2 panels, still wouldn't it be more useful to have one <tabset>(or to have it as a 3rd variant) showing tabset name of currently active panel = even thought there are 2 of them, only one can be active anyways.. for showing path and changing it, no matter what tab/panel it is, this works well

1 - you mean examples in the configuration window (<path> - <app> @ <ini> - <ver>)? that's not so important.

2 - ok, I'll add <tabset>

[admin]

From what I can see the only real problem is that when opening/loading a tabset the changes to the current one are really saved.

While I get that data about the tabsets is constantly being saved, if that were truly the case then shouldn't this end with the user at <xypath>?

1. Fresh XY
2. Disable Save Settings on Exit
3. Save Settings
4. ::goto <xypath>;
5. Restart

Just like this:

1. Fresh XY
2. Disable Save Settings on Exit
3. Save Settings
4. ::goto <xypath>;
5. Tabsets -> New
6. Restart

Why is using "Save Settings on Exit" a mistake when determining if the current tabset should be saved before open/load-ing a new one?

I think I explained this one post later here: http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic. ... 602#p66602


***

OK, I give up.

The issue here is only the find tabs that become unselected. They are saved no matter what.

Assuming that the latter is a minor problem for "No-Savers", and because I'm finally getting soft for all this nagging, and because I personally don't care (because I'm a "Saver"), I will revoke it again. LOL, isn't that unprofessional!

[Stefan]

LOL, isn't that unprofessional!

No. That's beta state.
I think it's a good thing to make use of experiences from real-world scenarios of beta testers
That marks the real great developer.

[eil]

(note that all this tab-saving ONLY concerns find tabs!), but not general pane data, like e.g. the number of tabs in the pane, or the make up of all non-find-tabs, or the name of the active pane set. These latter things are only saved on exit, or when explicitly saving settings, or on a tabset switch.

thank you for good explanation
i quoted this part 'cause i think there is one more issue for "non-savers" > auto-save on tabset changing.. 'cause as i understand, even if Save on Exit is Off it doesn't nullify this saving. so maybe there should be an option in Tab section of Configuration "Auto-save on Tabset changing" (meant open/loadas/saveas) with default On. so non-savers could really freeze their tabsets(aside from mentioned by you Search tabs)

2 - ok, I'll add <tabset>

Thanks!

LOL, isn't that unprofessional!

No. That's beta state.
I think it's a good thing to make use of experiences from real-world scenarios of beta testers
That marks the real great developer.

true true

[admin]

(note that all this tab-saving ONLY concerns find tabs!), but not general pane data, like e.g. the number of tabs in the pane, or the make up of all non-find-tabs, or the name of the active pane set. These latter things are only saved on exit, or when explicitly saving settings, or on a tabset switch.

thank you for good explanation
i quoted this part 'cause i think there is one more issue for "non-savers" > auto-save on tabset changing.. 'cause as i understand, even if Save on Exit is Off it doesn't nullify this saving. so maybe there should be an option in Tab section of Configuration "Auto-save on Tabset changing" (meant open/loadas/saveas) with default On. so non-savers could really freeze their tabsets(aside from mentioned by you Search tabs)

I like it. I think "Auto-save on Tabset changing" (or so) would make more sense than binding it to "Save settings on exit" (because Tabset changing != Exit). But what do I know of No-Savers preferences...

[PeterH]

OK, I give up.

The issue here is only the find tabs that become unselected. They are saved no matter what.

Assuming that the latter is a minor problem for "No-Savers", and because I'm finally getting soft for all this nagging, and because I personally don't care (because I'm a "Saver"), I will revoke it again. LOL, isn't that unprofessional!

Let me say it this way: if now there's much less nagging, people will apparently be more satisfied as before. I think to test this is professional
And from my point of view this solution is the right one - else the world of "no autosave" would be inconsistent.

No question: in the moment I'm satisfied
And should I stumble about a minor problem in combination with this solution I wouldn't mind
So I hope we will not find any bigger problem with this!

I personally am glad I must not start further testing.

Therefore: a big thank you,
and again the wish that no bigger problem arises with this way to go!

PS, as I just saw the post concerning "Auto-Save on Tabset changing".
I'm glad enough that I wouldn't mind
But as I said before: for me this saving combined with "save on Exit" was inconsistent. So I'd say it belongs together. And I feel that the description of "Auto-save on Tabset-Change" might be a bit complicated. Maybe the name for both could be combined to something like "Autosave", maybe with a description to Exit and to Tabset Change?

[eil]

I think "Auto-save on Tabset changing" (or so) would make more sense than binding it to "Save settings on exit" (because Tabset changing != Exit).

quite same thinking here + i think it may be useful sometimes to have this auto-save as a separate option(even though i'm mostly "Saver")

PS, as I just saw the post concerning "Auto-Save on Tabset changing".
I'm glad enough that I wouldn't mind
But as I said before: for me this saving combined with "save on Exit" was inconsistent. So I'd say it belongs together. And I feel that the description of "Auto-save on Tabset-Change" might be a bit complicated. Maybe the name for both could be combined to something like "Autosave", maybe with a description to Exit and to Tabset Change?

sorry, i read it 10 times and still didn't understand if you are supporting this option or not..? 'cause you say it's inconsistent with Save on Exit, and then you say it belongs together..

[PeterH]

I think "Auto-save on Tabset changing" (or so) would make more sense than binding it to "Save settings on exit" (because Tabset changing != Exit).

quite same thinking here + i think it may be useful sometimes to have this auto-save as a separate option(even though i'm mostly "Saver")

PS, as I just saw the post concerning "Auto-Save on Tabset changing".
I'm glad enough that I wouldn't mind
But as I said before: for me this saving combined with "save on Exit" was inconsistent. So I'd say it belongs together. And I feel that the description of "Auto-save on Tabset-Change" might be a bit complicated. Maybe the name for both could be combined to something like "Autosave", maybe with a description to Exit and to Tabset Change?

sorry, i read it 10 times and still didn't understand if you are supporting this option or not..? 'cause you say it's inconsistent with Save on Exit, and then you say it belongs together..

I must have written it too often - it should have been:
But as I said before: for me this saving (on tabset-change) combined with "not save on Exit" was inconsistent.

So I would use one option for both. Either always auto-save, or not. And possibly give it another name, without the "on exit".
But I didn't completely understand and/or test the relation to tabset-change, I might be wrong here.
My plan would be to disable both, if they get split...