XYplorer Beta Club

jacky wrote:I also still think "Settings" isn't a good idea here, because when one sees, in menu "Folder Specific Settings", a command to "Save Settings", it isn't abnormal to think it's about the same as the one in "Settings" that reads "Save Folder Specific Settings"

I understand it's FSS and Settings is a general term that applies here, but I feel it's not really a good idea to use it like that. I feel the notion as "saving settings" in XY is associated with saving them, aka to INI/DAT.

Very true! That's part of my problem with word Settings but jacky described it best here.

jacky wrote:That said, it might be better to keep "Folder Specific Settings" as the name of the feature, because that's how it is widely known I believe. Just, FSS allow one to define some Folder Views (which are Views, Sort Order, Column Visibility/Order, etc)
After all this is what we're defining here, even if we add Show IP, etc : it is how this specific folder will be "viewed" in XY, it is a kind of a "Folder View".

So...how about "FVS"="Folder View Settings"? Do we really need to have the word 'specific' there? In that M$ article, the word is only used twice and not as part of any title/name.
To me, as jacky said, even if it is more than just how list is formatted, like whether NP is on/off, that is part of the 'view'. And just because there is a lot of stuff saved with it to make it work behind the scenes, like folder/pattern, that's not a concern or care of the end user so 'view' still seems to best describe it, IMHO.

Addendum: While I was typing above, I see some new posts...and of the two options (Don vs jacky) in last post, I'd definitely vote for jacky's with one minor change (change 'specific' to 'view')!

j_c_hallgren wrote:So...how about "FVS"="Folder View Settings"?

But there's still the "settings". Why not go all the way: call the whole feature "Folder Views"?

admin wrote:

j_c_hallgren wrote:So...how about "FVS"="Folder View Settings"?

But there's still the "settings". Why not go all the way: call the whole feature "Folder Views"?

Maybe because someone ( ) desired to have a three letter abbreviation for the feature? And it would be only used in very limited cases, like the feature on/off and overall title of it (and it's needed in the File menu to save the DAT)...the shorter form would be used in the other menu functions as jacky presented...plus "FVS" as a string occurs in that M$ article title!

And since you wrote:

Equally common as "view settings" is "folder view settings" which is too long but could be abbreviated to "Settings"!

As it would be only used in a few places anyway, "Folder View Settings" is actually shorter than "Folder Specific Settings" so too long isn't a problem.

admin wrote: Okay, I further tuned (minimalized!) my proposal (which already adapted jacky's organization), and now it's about these two:

don's:

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder Specific Settings
    ---
    Save Settings 
    Edit... 
    Remove
    --- 
    Save Settings As... 
    Save Settings As Default 

jacky's:

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder Specific Settings
    ---
    Save Folder View 
    Edit Folder View... 
    Remove Folder View 
    ---
    Edit & Save New Folder View... 
    Save As Default Folder View

Let's hear some other opinions about why mine is better!

Actually I like jacky's proposal here but like JC suggested you can change FSS to FVS (Folder View Settings). Because IMHO "specific" is a vague term (what are the specifics?) it can mean anything. But the word "view" simply means pertaining to the way a folder is viewed. Well, atleast it will be understood by many (atleast WE migrators) when compared to specific.

admin wrote:Let's hear some other opinions about why mine is better!

meh, that's cheating!

j_c_hallgren wrote:I'd definitely vote for jacky's !

muahahaha

admin wrote:Why not go all the way: call the whole feature "Folder Views"?

I said it might be better to keep it FSS because I felt that's how it's most widely known, how it was requested, how it will be looked for, but if "Folder Views" is just as known/used for this, let's just call it Folder Views!

I like this the best I think...



Enable Folder Specific Settings
---
Save Folder View
Edit Folder View...
Remove Folder View
---
Edit & Save New Folder View...
Save As Default Folder View


I would change 'Edit Folder View...' to 'Update Folder View'

----

I also think an option to automatically update/create a folder view when a modification is made anywhere would be nice.

ie: if I am browsing around and decide to sort a folder by date XY will automatically save a folder view in the background. I don't have to remember to go into the menu (or keyboard shortcut) and save the view.

If that is possible, I would always have it on. I don't know what kind of overhead it would cause or how difficult it would be though....

Thinking more about it, since we have Tree style and List style, would "Folder style" make sense? In a way we are styling the same information or content in a folder to suit us using different folder styles. Analogous to same hair but different hair style. Opinions?

OK, forget this post. Folder view seems more standard to me right now.

to break the ongoing description saga

I think this is a bug

Error 70 (00000046)
Desc Permission denied
Dll 0
Proc dumpFSS to: C:\Program Files\XYplorer\fss.dat

Source XYplorer
XY ver 7.40.0013
OS WinXP (Service Pack 3)
Date 07/08/2008 16:03:43

reproduced by

go to xy folder
select fss.dat
X to close or minimise in my case
exit from system tray results in above report.

graham wrote: reproduced by

go to xy folder
select fss.dat
X to close or minimise in my case
exit from system tray results in above report.

Cannot reproduce here on Window XP pro (SP3) and v7.40.0013

eurytos wrote:I would change 'Edit Folder View...' to 'Update Folder View'

But Update could sound like it will update the FV with the current situation, I feel, while we're actually "editing the settings".

eurytos wrote:I also think an option to automatically update/create a folder view when a modification is made anywhere would be nice.

It's already there, option "Auto-save changes"

eurytos, what is your opinion, if any, on the 'F Specific S' vs 'F View S' for the first menu item and overall feature? Since you didn't explictly address that aspect, and I'm just wondering.

jacky wrote:

j_c_hallgren wrote:I'd definitely vote for jacky's !

muahahaha

What was that greeny all about?

Okay, Folder View Settings, I like it!

That would make jacky's proposal look like this: I like it a bit better than before, but I still have some problems with it:
(1) Too many words, too many "Folder View". Isn't that just implied? Couldn't it at least reduced to "View":
(2)
Save View
Edit View...
That's an overloaded use of the term "[Folder] View". The View is saved to a scheme, and the scheme is edited, not the (folder) view. It should be
Save As View , or Save To View
if View is the new word for scheme. But then users will ask: Save WHAT as (folder) view?

(3) "Edit & Save New View... " -- I don't like that. What's the problem with "Save View As..." or "Save As New View..."?

To end with a new proposal:

jacky wrote:

eurytos wrote:I would change 'Edit Folder View...' to 'Update Folder View'

But Update could sound like it will update the FV with the current situation, I feel, while we're actually "editing the settings".

eurytos wrote:I also think an option to automatically update/create a folder view when a modification is made anywhere would be nice.

It's already there, option "Auto-save changes"

Of course I missed the feature..... *ARGHH*

I also must have misunderstood the purpose of 'Edit Folder View'. Sorry I skimmed the last page and half of the topic and drew the incorrect conclusion.

As for JC's question:
I would go with something that relays that the settings are on a per-folder basis. To me, 'specific' gets that across more than 'view'. When I look at the statement 'folder view settings', I think of something that would be like a default template for all folders. But 'folder specific setting' tells me it is focused on a single item.


I don't know if either is the best to use but I doubt I can come up with anything better.

how about:
'individual folder settings'
'individual folder view'
'special folder settings'
'Folder Specific Layout'
or generally
'Folder Layout'
'Folder Layouts'

admin wrote:Okay, Folder View Settings, I like it!

That would make jacky's proposal look like this:

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder View Settings 
    --- 
    Save Folder View 
    Edit Folder View... 
    Remove Folder View 
    --- 
    Edit & Save New Folder View... 
    Save As Default Folder View

I like it a bit better than before, but I still have some problems with it:
(1) Too many words, too many "Folder View". Isn't that just implied? Couldn't it at least reduced to "View":

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder View Settings 
    --- 
    Save View 
    Edit View... 
    Remove View 
    --- 
    Edit & Save New View... 
    Save As Default View

(2)
Save View
Edit View...
That's an overloaded use of the term "[Folder] View". The View is saved to a scheme, and the scheme is edited, not the (folder) view. It should be
Save As View , or Save To View
if View is the new word for scheme. But then users will ask: Save WHAT as (folder) view?

(3) "Edit & Save New View... " -- I don't like that. What's the problem with "Save View As..." or "Save As New View..."?

To end with a new proposal:

Code: Select all

    Enable Folder View Settings 
    --- 
    Save Folder View 
    Edit... 
    Remove
    --- 
    Save Folder View As...
    Save Folder View As Default

To jump in again.. I think this would sound good.

Enable Folder View Settings
---
Save Folder Layout
Edit...
Remove
---
Save Folder Layout As...
Save Folder Layout As Default


I don't know why layout suddenly sounds good to me....

Damn it, I'm starting get headache! Please, I want to program, not to turn words around!

I also find "Folder Specific Settings" more correct, but google tells me this:
22.700 results for "Folder View Settings".
447 results for "Folder Specific Settings".
245 results for "Custom Folder Views".