XY = Non-notable software

[jacky]

Well, it does look better/good, and hopefully people will keep voting more in favor to keeping it than deleting it. Nice work there, guys!

I have a confession to make though

The edits that caused the commercialization were by IP Address 77.201.147.100, whoever that is!

Yeah, that'd be me actually!

The thing is, I don't know why exactly but last night I ended up on the XYplorer page on wikipedia, and I saw it was "considered for deletion" again, at I got pissed quite frankly. Because the page was obviously not just advertising the application, and it hadn't been brought back after deletion by one of us. Yes, jc did a great job getting it back, but in the end he only talk with wikipedia people and showed them more references of notability, and they eventually decided that, yes, XYplorer was worth (notable enough) having its page on wikipedia.

So I was there, tired and pissed, and I wanted to do something before I got to bed so I started editing the page, willing to make it look more "complete", showing XY was worth being there, that it wasn't just another explorer replacement and that it had gained notability. Now, I won't deny it, I probably did go a little way too much into advertising-sounding, but you know, what can I say, I was pissed.

Since the page was only a couple of lines about XY and a couple of references, I wrote a little more about it, added references like Windows Weekly, PC World or Gizmo, and I went over pages of other softwares (and file managers) that were on wikipedia and had no problem staying there, and since many had a list of features I added that as well, only trying to get the page to look a bit more "filled".

I know I went too "advertising", but it was late and I was pissed, sorry about that. And about the link to "Comparison of FTP client software", well, again, it was late and I was tired...

Anyways, I'm glad to see you guys fixed it nicely, and I hope people of wikipedia will see XY is worth/notable enough being there. And, just to be clear, those changes did not cause the consideration for deletion, they were in fact a (surely not adequate) reaction to it!

[admin]

The thing is, I don't know why exactly but last night I ended up on the XYplorer page on wikipedia, and I saw it was "considered for deletion" again...

So that was before your addings? Damn, this Alistair "Torquemada" McMillan gets on my nerves. But he will fail once more -- XY's notability is just too obvious now.

[jacky]

So that was before your addings? Damn, this Alistair "Torquemada" McMillan gets on my nerves. But he will fail once more -- XY's notability is just too obvious now.

Yes, the deletion came before I did anything, and is the reason I did anything in the first place.

[admin]

So that was before your addings? Damn, this Alistair "Torquemada" McMillan gets on my nerves. But he will fail once more -- XY's notability is just too obvious now.

Yes, the deletion came before I did anything, and is the reason I did anything in the first place.

So, what about undoing your doings?

I really think understatement rules. XYplorer is clearly inside the top 10 of today's file managers worldwide, probably top 5. There's no need really to drop features. People can click on the link to the homepage if they want to know more. The first they want is a screenshot anyway.

So, please, just revert to the version before the edit! Probably leave the infobox and some of the links you added, like Gizmo and Windows weekly.

Thanks!

[j_c_hallgren]

Just for info: The core page that I was working from was the restored prior page from last year that I was provided via admin hdt83 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk: ... _last_July at this work area page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hdt83/temp

Given that reason given for removal first time was the lack of 'notable' references, the addition of the major media mentions since then should have qualified it to be back to that, since I don't see anything in the original http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... n/XYplorer that really complains about the contents of it, just the lack of references that mattered.

And the page as it is now corresponds quite closely to a number of other FM pages, so I think we have a reasonable case to attempt to keep it like that...I've put a msg to AlistairMcMillian at his 'talk' page pointing out thie situation, since it wasn't any of us who put it back online, but another admin Hdt83!

[admin]

Just for info: The core page that I was working from was the restored prior page from last year that I was provided via admin hdt83 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk: ... _last_July at this work area page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hdt83/temp

Given that reason given for removal first time was the lack of 'notable' references, the addition of the major media mentions since then should have qualified it to be back to that, since I don't see anything in the original http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... n/XYplorer that really complains about the contents of it, just the lack of references that mattered.

And the page as it is now corresponds quite closely to a number of other FM pages, so I think we have a reasonable case to attempt to keep it like that...I've put a msg to AlistairMcMillian at his 'talk' page pointing out thie situation, since it wasn't any of us who put it back online, but another admin Hdt83!

Still I think the contents section should be much shorter and more generic (do not use words that only make sense when you know XY better). It also should not use words that are mysterious to most innocent citizens like "hybrid file manager" -- that's wiki-slang...

By more generic I mean something like "focuses on efficiency, personalized work-flow, customizability, portability...". Broadly point out the goals, not the means.

[j_c_hallgren]

Still I think the contents section should be much shorter and more generic (do not use words that only make sense when you know XY better). It also should not use words that are mysterious to most innocent citizens like "hybrid file manager" -- that's wiki-slang...

It's the wiki-slang that helps keep it there, IMO! The expression "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" comes to mind! People who read WP should expect different terminology there than the rest of the net, at least that has been my conclusion.

By more generic I mean something like "focuses on efficiency, personalized work-flow, customizability, portability...". Broadly point out the goals, not the means.

Having skimmed thru a number of the other FM articles there, and the fact that wikipedia is intended as a encyclopedia variant, those type of words seem to be more opinion oriented as compared to facts...they seem to want just the cold dry details in as much wiki-techno-speak as possible.

[jacky]

Well, honestly I'm not sure if things should be changed back. I mean, the page as it is now is not really advertising, more descripting what XY is. And since the first page that got nominated for deletion was pretty just one sentence, reverting to that might not be a good idea I'd think.

After all, I understand all you want is for XY to be on wikipedia, but they might not see any interest to having a page if it doesn't really say anything else than "it's a file manager" -- that may be seen as nothing but promotion as well, because one thing they don't want to do is listing all file managers that do exists.

And since that original page got considered for deletion, I think keeping with a little more might be a good idea. If not, I'm sure some wikipedia editors will adjust it, since XY now is - I believe - too notable to be taken out.

And at least for now there is a "real" page describing XY, I had also added it to the comparaison page.

Plus, it looks like other pages on wikipedia, who also often use words like "orthodox file manager" and such, that's the point : to be descriptive, technical mayeb even, instead of promotional like "focuses on efficiency, personalized work-flow, customizability, portability" would sound like. At least I would think so.

ZTreeWin is an orthodox file manager for Microsoft Windows and a (heavily improved) clone of XTree.

SpeedCommander is a shareware Orthodox File Manager (OFM) for Windows. Its predominant marketplace is Germany and is thus relatively unknown to the worldwide user community.

Unlike many OFM for Windows has a very user friendly way of customizing the user-interface and keyboard shortcuts with full duplicity key detection mechanism (resembling the MS Office style of UI customization).

FAR Manager (short for File and ARchive Manager) is an orthodox file manager for Microsoft Windows and a clone of Norton Commander. FAR Manager makes use of the Win32 console, and is mostly key-driven.

[admin]

Okay, seems I can't stop you. So, thanks for your efforts despite of my efforts.

PS: You (both) are right: "goals" do not belong in an encyclopedia.

[j_c_hallgren]

Just saw the PC World review.

I wasn't aware of that before you posted link, but appears/seems the author's other works have been published in the print version numerous times, and while this review may not be in print, having it written by someone like that helps for sure.

[graham]

I do not get Wikipedia and it's apparent influence in sales - I think it a low key and misleading outfit but probably useful to gather a list of FM's in existence so XY should be there especially for new sales.

May I suggest that time is right Don to send every registered owner of XY a brief and simple HTML email concentrating on scripting now available in version 7 with just one really good useful example. Something they can pass on as news to friends.

It works like this - email clearly aimed at DP professionals, reminder of latest feature (many users may have lapsed), suggestion they pass it on to a colleague.

You may be, like me, be a hater of email advertising but if it is specific and NOTABLE then it can work. As I said I hate email advertising yet I still allow certain sites to pass my filter because they are interesting and have genuine news.

[j_c_hallgren]

I'm working at rebuting the negative items appearing here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... 9#XYplorer

The latest "complaint" was about the free vers not being on download page and that PC Mag blurb was "undated"...can't these folks do any looking around on a site to see where things may have moved in meantime, and find the publication date?

Addendum: Even though the Langa List mentiion wasn't 100% positive, it was another well-known listing so I added it to WP links to help our case.

[admin]

I'm working at rebuting the negative items appearing here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... 9#XYplorer

The latest "complaint" was about the free vers not being on download page and that PC Mag blurb was "undated"...can't these folks do any looking around on a site to see where things may have moved in meantime, and find the publication date?

Addendum: Even though the Langa List mentiion wasn't 100% positive, it was another well-known listing so I added it to WP links to help our case.

Good job!

I just happened to end up here and thought XY is missing on that list, ain't it? Let's make WP better...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_po ... management

[admin]

I'm working at rebuting the negative items appearing here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... 9#XYplorer

The latest "complaint" was about the free vers not being on download page and that PC Mag blurb was "undated"...can't these folks do any looking around on a site to see where things may have moved in meantime, and find the publication date?

Addendum: Even though the Langa List mentiion wasn't 100% positive, it was another well-known listing so I added it to WP links to help our case.

Good job!

I just happened to end up here and thought XY is missing on that list, ain't it? Let's make WP better...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_po ... management

Thanks, j_c_hallgren!

[j_c_hallgren]

Thanks, j_c_hallgren!

You didn't look at that page history, I see!
It was that other wiki modifier who still goes by his IP addr!