XYplorer Beta Club

ale wrote: click the left or right border of XY window or the bottom left or bottom right corner of the window and drag to resize, then you'll see the panes resizing is different with the three options

Ah...ok...since I have XY maximized almost all the time, I wouldn't have seen that...so tried it and found something odd/unusual that I'll post in bug thread.

I repeat:

TheQwerty wrote:Regarding the line above vs. the frame, I don't think the line above looks any better than the frame. What I like about the frame is it kind of lassos your attention and focuses it on the control it surrounds. The color would need to be customizable and I certainly wouldn't try to loop around the tab as well - just a frame around the rectangle.

The frame vs. an info bar in each pane. The frame could probably be done with just a pixel or two, so vertically we lose 4 pixels. The info bar is going to take up probably 2-4 times that, and it's more space than I'm willing to give up. I also feel it's going to give the GUI a more cluttered feel, but this is of course without seeing it, so I'll hold my final judgment until Don produces something.

And after seeing that I do feel it is cluttered, and since I use the address bar I have no need to see the path at least 3 times (the title, address bar, and info bar) and usually 4 (tab). I don't think that's going to look good at all on non-Details views.


Frankly, at that point, I'd make the info bar an address bar, and do away with the current address bar. In other words, approach it more like Opera or Chrome, and have the address bar within the tab pane. Otherwise you've got a lot of redundant data being shown in the standard (and dare I say most other) configuration(s). You could also end a lot of the silliness with the multiple window layouts, that tend to never be exactly what the user wants.


But if you insist on only the single line above, then I think you should just combine it with that info bar in the following way. You make that bar resize-able, with a snapping point of 1/2 the height (in Don's picture).
1) If the user resizes the bar to 1/2 the height (that snapping point) or greater, it becomes full height and is exactly as shown in the picture.
2) If the user resizes the bar to less than 1/2 the height, the text is hidden, and it becomes just the colored bar, at whatever height the user moved it to. This should allow the user to have a colored bar of 1 to probably 9 pixels, and ties it all into a single control.

EDIT: And it doesn't have to be a dragging handle to resize, it could just be a tweak or a Config setting.
Pane Bar Height:
0 - Hidden
1-9
10< - Full Height

Mesh wrote:

josephrot wrote:

josephrot wrote:
Vital:

Almost any right-click then shows pop-up menu, the same options as under "icons needed that:" have to be present.

Nearly everyone right clicks to see options, for example on a particular drive or tab display, and having the two most used Dual Pane options right there is very obvious to users and is somewhat common to other dual-pane apps -- almost expected to be there, etc.

I disagree. I don't think it belongs in a right click menu at all. This is not a context sensitive item, but a global command.

Well, the idea of the right-click menu thought was to make it easy to go to Dual Pane IF the user is in a process or context that it would be a logical option to have or take.... more of an easier way to locate Dual Pane at a needed time...at least that was my thought process.

Joe

TheQwerty wrote:Frankly, at that point, I'd make the info bar an address bar, and do away with the current address bar. In other words, approach it more like Opera or Chrome, and have the address bar within the tab pane. Otherwise you've got a lot of redundant data being shown in the standard (and dare I say most other) configuration(s). You could also end a lot of the silliness with the multiple window layouts, that tend to never be exactly what the user wants.

Yes, I had shortly thought of this as well (and of course I have seen this layout in various "orthodox file managers"). Now that you bring this up I must admit it would solve a number of things quite nicely. I'll meditate about it... one address bar per pane (that would mutate back/forth into a clickable & droppable breadcrumb when clicking the icon)... hmmm....

Your other idea with the line: Yes, also an option, but I'm not totally convinced. Actually I'm not totally convinced of any of the ideas we have seen up to now (incl. my own).

admin wrote:Your other idea with the line: Yes, also an option, but I'm not totally convinced. Actually I'm not totally convinced of any of the ideas we have seen up to now (incl. my own).

I've read TheQwerty's post more than once and I must be getting dumb 'cause from that desc, I think I follow it but I'm not sure...is there a way to get some minimal mock-up of the idea? Especially the extreme variants in pixel height? Nothing fancy needed.

Addendum: And I tend to agree that Don's mockup had slight overdose of places where path is shown...

admin wrote:

TheQwerty wrote:Frankly, at that point, I'd make the info bar an address bar, and do away with the current address bar. In other words, approach it more like Opera or Chrome, and have the address bar within the tab pane. ...

Okay, I made two mockups:
(1) with the clickable/droppable breadcrumb
(2) with the other "state", the Address Bar input box
I must say I like it! The mockup shows the single pane mode (I want to make sure that single pane still works 100% and nothing is sacrificed to DP) -- but you will have the imagination to see that this would work in DP as well.

Looks good at initial glance...though I have a couple of points...first, it does give more room for toolbar icons which is a good thing...but...second, it reduces the space available for list/IP by an amount that may be more important for us with smaller screen resolutions.

An idea which I knew I had seen somewhere and finally found. Arrows on the splitter to show which is the active pane - I think it's useless but it might inspire Don or somebody with an idea. It's certainly subtle!!!

i don't like to see anything on the splitter, i really like the simplicity of the current dual pane.
for determining the active pane, check out blender's way, you just hover the mouse to the window of your choice and automatically it will be the active window.here is the website , please remove if its not allowed to post external links here.

here is a screenshot, it doesnt say much, but i split the 3D windows into 2, so when i hover my mouse over the first window, that would be selected, and viceversa.

stanmarsh wrote:i don't like to see anything on the splitter, i really like the simplicity of the current dual pane.
for determining the active pane, check out blender's way, you just hover the mouse to the window of your choice and automatically it will be the active window.

I agree about the splitter arrows...nice idea, but not for me...

As to just hovering to select: I sometimes move the mouse around screen while doing tasks and wouldn't want the pane to switch just because I left it in the "wrong" place for a bit.

admin wrote:
Okay, I made two mockups:
(1) with the clickable/droppable breadcrumb
(2) with the other "state", the Address Bar input box
I must say I like it! The mockup shows the single pane mode (I want to make sure that single pane still works 100% and nothing is sacrificed to DP) -- but you will have the imagination to see that this would work in DP as well.

I don't use the address bar, and having it in addition to the tab bar takes up too much space. I would end up turning it off, which means there would still need to be a way to distinguish the active pane when the address bars were disabled.

j_c_hallgren wrote:
I agree about the splitter arrows...nice idea, but not for me...

As to just hovering to select: I sometimes move the mouse around screen while doing tasks and wouldn't want the pane to switch just because I left it in the "wrong" place for a bit.

I concur - I don't like anything on the splitter either, and the hover method for focus is a bad idea useability-wise.

j_c_hallgren wrote:Looks good at initial glance...though I have a couple of points...first, it does give more room for toolbar icons which is a good thing...but...second, it reduces the space available for list/IP by an amount that may be more important for us with smaller screen resolutions.

I haven't had much time to play with DP, also I have to say I'm not a fan of it myself so I lack any excitement about it I guess, but there's a reason I'm still using an old beta myself : I have an issue with the new layout.

I have nothing against dual pane, but I use XY all day long, 100% of the time maximized, and single-pane. And I just don't like to waste any pixel for nothing. I do use tabs but not the AB, and with the new layouts, I just have to have a smaller List because the tabs eat on it, and I have a full row wasted, because it only has the 9 buttons of my TB and that's it (on a 1400x900 monitor).

I just can't stand that, I already have the menubar that is more than half of nothing, and the idea to get the same or worse for the TB it just horrible to me. So I would ask, if it / could it be planned that when on single-pane mode, we could get the Tabs back up with the TB ??

About those mockups, it might look good, but all I see is those four empty rows on the right: menubar, toolbar, tabs and now AB/breadcrumb. All that eating space for nothing and - on my system - probably resulting in ~80% of my screen's width be wasted over no less than 4 rows!! arrr, I just can't deal with that. But I need the menu, TB & Tabs, and that's still three rows now At least with my current/old layout, it's only one, and that I'm fine with.

Also, and this has nothing to do with it, but the dbl-click to have both pane the same size on horizontal mode doesn't seem to work right. I mean, it gave me 16 rows up and 14 rows down, instead of 15 rows in each pane. Not a big deal but that's all I got

Following latest thoughts and the idea of dual address bar, I prepared some neutral shots if you want to open and modify in your editor

Minimal configuration
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3170/001ac.png

Dual address bar, no tabs
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1364/002ag.png

Dual address bar, tabs
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8035/003a.png

Dual address bar, colorized tabs
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8076/004aa.png


Tabs and address bar are optional at the moment, and in dual pane mode we still need a way to differentiate active from inactive pane. So here's minimal configuration modified with a little stripe as I showed yesterday, I personally like the stripe but feedback and discussion is welcome
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5862/001b.png

If address bars are present, maybe the most obvious way to show active pane is colorize the area (if technically possible), so here's the other three shots modified in this way. Again, is just to give an idea.
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5893/002bw.png
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7803/003b.png
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9163/004bw.png

Thanks for all the input! While I'm not a fan of wasting anything (e.g. space) I do enjoy space especially when it's free. So having some "white space" in the bars is not such a bad thing for me. And having 39 rows in the list instead of 40 would not make me sick. Perceptually both is far too much anyway and just stressing eyes and brain.

Anyway, I still need a way to mark the active pane when all other things are off (tabs, AB, crumb). The 2-pixel "line" (see ale's shots) currently looks like the best option, however it cannot be "inside" the list for technical reasons. So it must above it. I'll make some experiments in the next week.

Splitter not 50%? I cannot reproduce any problem here. My splitter centers perfectly always.