XYplorer Beta Club

A few observations from someone who has only recently started to use the program.

EXY-plorer?
I see that Donald Lessau has very kindly included my suggestion although I am not surprised it has no votes. This is how the pronunciation arose. From the outset, I enjoyed using this product very much, as did my wife. Because I was unsure of the pronunciation, I readily accepted her suggestion of “exy-plorer”, based on the idea that it’s a “sexy” product. When you pronounce exy-plorer quickly, it very handily turns into the word “explorer”, which is really what we’re after, isn’t it? We want to latch onto the idea of “Explorer”. Everyone who uses a computer knows by now exactly what Windows Explorer does – it explores the directory/file structure. We want to fix firmly in people’s minds that this product occupies the same territory as Windows Explorer – and surpasses it.

I will vote for my own suggestion just to give it a score of one. But I would accept zai-plorer (despite my reservations below) because there is a logical foundation for the pronunciation.


Difficulties with the pronunciation X-Y-Plorer
I personally find the name XYplorer a little difficult because someone who has never come across the name before will be unsure how to pronounce it. Using the pronunciation “X-Y-Plorer” feels awkward. The “Y” presents a problem because it separates the “ex” part of the word from the “plorer” part and causes an over-emphasis on “plorer”, which is an explosive sound in English. When speaking the word, you end up with X-Y-PLO-rer. I think it sounds a bit unnatural to a native English speaker. I can’t explain this very coherently. The best I can do is to say that there is no common word in English beginning with the syllable “plore” and so there no other familiar word-group that you can associate with it. Consequently, “plorer” stands isolated. For me at least, the emphasis on “plore” has a slightly negative connotation with the word “deplore”.

I think that it is significant that the speaker in the podcast on the xyplorer.com home page sounds a little unsure of the pronunciation and seems to be rolling it around in his mind somewhat as he speaks the word. He even has to spell it out twice because he realises that his listeners will not be sure of the product name at first hearing. So XYplorer does not pass my simple test for instant recognition of the name.


Previous Change of Name
I note that at some point in the past the program was named Tracker3 and that this was changed to XYplorer. One contributor to the thread has suggested that the name should be changed again but that could be a difficult course of action to take.

It’s fair enough changing a name from Tracker3 to XYplorer because it fixes in the potential customer’s mind that this is a product that handles file management, but having decided the name it is not so easy to change it again, particularly to a far less recognisable name like XY. The other problem is that if a developer keeps changing the product name, a reviewer might easily ask himself: “If the developer can’t even decide what to call the product is he equally unsure what the program should doing?”

You have to get the name right and stick with it. You only change it if it is your judgement that the product’s market penetration is insufficient for a name-change to matter or if the product changes so radically that a name change is demanded.


ZAI plorer
I am not entirely persuaded by the suggestion “zai-plorer”.
Most English speakers (whether as a first or second language) would probably have initial difficulty with a word like xylophone. It’s one of those words which, to some extent, has to be learnt visually rather than aurally (just as “through” has to be learnt as “thru”). Perhaps this visual recognition is needed because there are few words in English beginning with the letter X. Now imagine how much more difficult it would be if the word were customarily written as XYlophone. You would not instinctively pronounce that as “zai-lo-phone” at first sight, would you?


Promote the Pronunciation
Whatever pronunciation is eventually decided on, it is vital that it be promoted everywhere. The explanation should be prominent on the home page and every bit of publicity passed to reviewers should contain the phrase in the first paragraph: “XYplorer, pronounced nnn-nnn ....” Anyone here who volunteers to express their enthusiasm for XYplorer by posting on other web-sites should really do the same.

Hi Horator, wow what a first posting!

I agree 100% with your analysis and eloquence. As you say, XY as in XYlophone is not the first interpretation to English speakers.

I rather like the concept of just using the XY part of the name once you get over the first introduction. Don's XY7 is even better as XY implies an unanswered question (X-Why?)

Anyway, thanks for your contribution and I too support EXY-plorer and I should have voted but I hate voting surveys

Welcome Hortator!

"Wow" from me as well. This post is almost a thesis, and a strong speech in favor of "Exyplorer". I wonder whether "Exyplorer" would get more votes now, if I opened another poll.

I also like that Exyplorer is phonetically closer to Ex-wai (which I will always promote as one of the ways to name the program) than Zaiplorer is.

I always had knack for "Exyplorer" from the moment you first mentioned it. I'd like to know now from everybody: Are there any strong points speaking against a pronounciation "Exyplorer"??

BTW, I know some might think this topic is not worth such a discussion. Listen: I studied linguistics and phonetics, so shut up!

admin wrote:Welcome Hortator!

"Wow" from me as well. This post is almost a thesis, and a strong speech in favor of "Exyplorer". I wonder whether "Exyplorer" would get more votes now, if I opened another poll.

Welcome to the XY forums from me as well! And I'll 'third' the "wow"! I'll still call it X-Y-plorer as I'd said before that when talking to someone who's never heard of it, one wants to leave the core clue as to how to find it on net at later time, which using the X-Y does, IMO. Since there are soooooo many oddly spelled things on net, one needs to emphasize exactly what one requires to locate it...Even for things that are named using "normal" words, it helps.

When I tell people about my site for my rental cottages on Cape Cod (shameless plug ) at http://www.PleasantForestShores.com, I remind them to just remember the letters "PFS" which they can then use to help locate my listing in Chamber of Commerce, etc. so same theory/principle applies here.

Besides, with folks/friends who now are aware of XY, I just say "X-Y" and how would one pronounce just that otherwise? Zai? Exy? X-Y makes it 100% clear.

Well, Hortator, first of all, I have to get in line and 'fourth' the "wow"!

I love it that someone would put so much thought into this topic and take so much time to attempt to convey those thoughts so thoroughly and eloquently!

admin wrote:BTW, I know some might think this topic is not worth such a discussion. Listen: I studied linguistics and phonetics, so shut up!

But obviously several of us do think it's worthwhile. There are probably many ways to measure worth/value (eg, economically, aesthetically, etc), but certainly part of the worth in this case is just all the fun we're having with it!

FWIW, here are a few of my thoughts in response to Hortator:

Hortator wrote:Because I was unsure of the pronunciation, I readily accepted her suggestion of “exy-plorer”, based on the idea that it’s a “sexy” product. When you pronounce exy-plorer quickly, it very handily turns into the word “explorer”, which is really what we’re after, isn’t it?

On the one hand, I think the "sexy/exy-plorer" association is really cute, and I smile each time I even think about it. I could get used to the "exy-plorer" pronunciation and be very comfortable with it. (But if part of the appeal is the "sexy/exy-plorer" association, do you then try to make that association more explicit somehow in the verbal description and/or graphics on the website so others would "get it" as well?)

On the other hand, the very fact that, in actual speech, "exy-plorer" so readily regresses to "explorer" is a disadvantage from my perspective. I would prefer a name that clearly implies Explorer-like function/purpose, but also clearly sets it apart, both as different product with enhanced functionality, and as a word that doesn't confuse the listener as to which product I am referring.

If the eventual consensus ends up being "exy-plorer," I will feel the need to enunciate it very clearly to set it apart from "Explorer," and very likely end up making it a point to say, "exy-plorer, not Explorer" when speaking to someone, just to be sure the distinction is clear. So that's a little awkward, as well.

Hortator wrote:Difficulties with the pronunciation X-Y-Plorer
I personally find the name XYplorer a little difficult because someone who has never come across the name before will be unsure how to pronounce it. Using the pronunciation “X-Y-Plorer” feels awkward.

I also find that pronouncing "ex-wai-plorer" feels awkward. For me, it just doesn't roll off the tongue easily, and the transition from the "Y" to the "plorer" is the part that feels awkward. (I think maybe it is partly because I pronounce "ex-wai-plorer" with the emphasis on the 2nd syllable, whereas I pronounce "exy-plorer" with the emphasis on the 1st syllable.) And since it does feel awkward, and also doesn't have any particular conceptual significance (see exchange earlier in thread between myself and Don), if we were starting from scratch, I don't think I would use the "Y" (not that I have any good alternative in mind). But at this point the current spelling is already established, and I'm certainly not suggesting a change (nor does there seem to be sufficient reason to consider a change. ....but still, how the heck are we gonna pronounce it??? )

And one more thought about the "ex-wai-plorer" pronunciation: as awkward as it may be, the abbreviation "X-Y" ("ex-wai") suggested several times in this thread by j_c_hallgren doesn't seem awkward to me at all, and grows on me each time I see it -- but that only works for those who are already familiar with the full name.

Hortator wrote:So XYplorer does not pass my simple test for instant recognition of the name.

From my perspective the current spelling and capitalization (XYplorer) actually is instantly recognizable to me in written form, and I like that. However, the spoken pronunciation that would seem to most readily suggest the correct spelling to an unfamiliar listener (ex-wai-plorer) is more awkward to pronounce. With any other pronunciation, it seems to me that the unfamiliar listener would be less likely to infer the correct spelling of the name.

Hortator wrote:ZAI plorer
I am not entirely persuaded by the suggestion “zai-plorer”.
Most English speakers (whether as a first or second language) would probably have initial difficulty with a word like xylophone. It’s one of those words which, to some extent, has to be learnt visually rather than aurally (just as “through” has to be learnt as “thru”). Perhaps this visual recognition is needed because there are few words in English beginning with the letter X. Now imagine how much more difficult it would be if the word were customarily written as XYlophone. You would not instinctively pronounce that as “zai-lo-phone” at first sight, would you?

Since I was the one who first mentioned "xylophone" earlier, I would just say that I did, in fact, automatically default to the "zai-plorer" pronunciation in my mind, because of the similarity to "xylophone."

While I agree that "xylophone" is an unusual word, my recollection is that I learned the word in early elementary school, and it is often used in children's books introducing the alphabet because it is one of the few words beginning with X that children (or most of us) might know (along with x-ray & Xerox ). So it doesn't seem to me that most adults who speak English (at least as a first language) would have any difficulty with "xylophone" at all (especially any who are intellectually capable enough, educated enough, and use computers enough to be interested in a program like XYplorer). But I don't have any idea what a xylophone is called in other languages, and I agree the word seems like it might be difficult to know how to pronounce if I was new to the English language (which has SO MANY words that are "exceptions to the rules" or don't seem to follow any rules when it comes to pronunciation).

On the other hand, even if people are familiar with "xylophone," words beginning with "xy-" are so uncommon that the pronunciation of "xylophone" might not occur to many/most upon their first encounter with the word "XYplorer" [a quick check of the WordWeb dictionary I use regularly on my computer yielded only 25 words starting with "xy-," 19 of which begin with "xyl-," and only one of which (besides xylophone & xylophonist) was I even vaguely familiar with (the chemical, xylol)]. And, as I indicated before, the capitalization of both the X and the Y raised a question in my mind whether the "zai-plorer" pronunciation that came automatically to me was correct. So whatever gets decided (IF it ever does get decided ), I'm in complete agreement with the following:

Hortator wrote:Promote the Pronunciation
Whatever pronunciation is eventually decided on, it is vital that it be promoted everywhere. The explanation should be prominent on the home page and every bit of publicity passed to reviewers should contain the phrase in the first paragraph: “XYplorer, pronounced nnn-nnn ....” Anyone here who volunteers to express their enthusiasm for XYplorer by posting on other web-sites should really do the same.

gdv wrote:... FWIW, here are a few of my thoughts in response to Hortator: ...

Wow to you, too, gdv!

I share most of what you said. I also came to the conclusion in the meantime that "exyplorer", while it sounds nice, is not easy to map on a spelling XYplorer. I should have called the app Exyplorer in the first time! But then there would still be the problem of having to make clear "Exyplorer, not Explorer".

So for me, at the moment it's still X-Y-plorer or Zai-plorer.

However, just to keep the discussion running , I'd like to throw a light on the way a German reader would pronounce it: xi-plorer [ksi-plo-rer] (which even got 2 votes by now)! Is there any way for English speakers to cope with this alternative?

Hortator wrote:Promote the Pronunciation
Whatever pronunciation is eventually decided on, it is vital that it be promoted everywhere. The explanation should be prominent on the home page and every bit of publicity passed to reviewers should contain the phrase in the first paragraph: “XYplorer, pronounced nnn-nnn ....” Anyone here who volunteers to express their enthusiasm for XYplorer by posting on other web-sites should really do the same.

BTW, I think everybody here is aware of http://www.xyplorer.com/product.htm , where I show the pronounciation [in brackets] in the first line ever since XYplorer exists.

Been a while since I've checked this thread.

admin wrote:So for me, at the moment it's still X-Y-plorer or Zai-plorer.

However, just to keep the discussion running , I'd like to throw a light on the way a German reader would pronounce it: xi-plorer [ksi-plo-rer] (which even got 2 votes by now)! Is there any way for English speakers to cope with this alternative?

Yes, I agree: I think the best options are X-Y-plorer or Zai-plorer.

At one point I was actually going to ask about the pronunciation of "Xi-plorer" in the poll, because in English I think most would pronounce it the same as "Zai-plorer" (so I was going to ask if there was a difference).

To me, the "ksi-plo-rer" pronunciation seems awkward in English. Right now, I can't think of a common English word that begins with the "ksi" sound. It does occur at the end of a syllable in many words when followed by another syllable (e.g., express, Baxter), or even at the end of a few single syllable words (e.g., "sex," to get back close the "exy" idea ).

As indicated earlier, the only fairly common English words I can think of that begin with "x" are "xylophone" and "X-ray." And except for "X-ray," all the words that I know beginning with "X" are pronounced as if they began with a "Z" (e.g., "zylophone").

"X-ray" does have the "ks" sound, but it is isn't really a correctly spelled word as much as a letter (X) attached to a word (ray), and when it is pronounced, there is a vowel sound in front of it that isn't in the spelling ("eks-ray") that makes it easier for a native English speaker to pronounce than a word starting with the "ks" sound would be.

Long ago I learned some Spanish and some Greek. I don't recall the "ks" sound occuring at the beginning of any Spanish words, and the way I learned Spanish, even the "x" in the middle of a word like "Mexico" is pronounced very softly, without the "k," more like a soft "h" ("Meh'-hee-ko"). I think I recall there being some Greek words begin with a "ks" sound, but I'd have to dig out some old reference material to verify that now.

Is the "ks" sound common at the beginning of many German words? If so, would I be correct in assuming the pronunciation is more comfortable/natural for a native German speaker because of its similarity to other more gutteral sounds in German (e.g., ich/ach sounds)?

gdv wrote:Is the "ks" sound common at the beginning of many German words? If so, would I be correct in assuming the pronunciation is more comfortable/natural for a native German speaker because of its similarity to other more gutteral sounds in German (e.g., ich/ach sounds)?

Words starting with X are very uncommon in German, but all of them are pronounced with [ks...] AFAIK. Even Xerox [kseroks]! But I don't think [ks] at the beginning of a word is extremely comfortable even for a German.

admin wrote:

gdv wrote: However, just to keep the discussion running , I'd like to throw a light on the way a German reader would pronounce it: xi-plorer [ksi-plo-rer] (which even got 2 votes by now)! Is there any way for English speakers to cope with this alternative?

when i first read about XYplorer i pronounced it [ksüplorer]. (over here, the pronounciation [ksülophon] is more common than [ksilophon] for the german xylophon). But i quickly got used to ex-wai-plorer. So this got my vote.

Otherwise, I might lean toward "zai-plorer," as in the English pronunciation of "xylophone" (although I don't know if that parallel fits for non-English languages), as I agree with Don that "it's faster and smoother in the mouth."

I'm with this guy

Zaiplorer it is!

Leo Laporte also had a bit of trouble with this issue...see related thread: http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2828

Choja wrote:
Otherwise, I might lean toward "zai-plorer," as in the English pronunciation of "xylophone" (although I don't know if that parallel fits for non-English languages), as I agree with Don that "it's faster and smoother in the mouth."

I'm with this guy

Zaiplorer it is!

What nobody knows: The real pronounciation is Zenplorer!

j_c_hallgren wrote:Leo Laporte also had a bit of trouble with this issue...see related thread: http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2828

But he created a boom for the keyword "xyexplorer" on google!

admin wrote:But he created a boom for the keyword "xyexplorer" on google!

Well, he did say it correct the very first time (XY-plorer) , then another correct way (zai-plorer), but then twice as the wrong way (XY explorer)

I've Twitter'd Paul to ask him to put a link to the forum thread in HIS site, and he replied "thanks" so not sure if/when that'll happen.

i call it sexy exy