XYplorer Beta Club

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 15:22**

admin wrote:Quick refers to the entering procedure, not to the execution.

Not the same but similar: In CSS there are techniques of squeezing several commands into on line; they call it "shorthand". "Quick" makes the same point but better, because you use a shorthand method to be quicker. You enter a script directly into the address bar to be quicker. That XY can store location terms in various ways (favs, catalog) is only a secondary effect.

Yes, but to be neat picking here I'd ask: if a Quick Name Search is just a quick way to do a Name Search, how does one do it otherwise then, in a non-quick way ?

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 15:30**

admin wrote:I'm for "Quick" because being descriptive is not the point. With menu captions you always have to learn and remember what they actually mean. The caption should just help you remember the meaning. "Quick" does the job.

admin wrote:You enter a script directly into the address bar to be quicker. That XY can store location terms in various ways (favs, catalog) is only a secondary effect.

I agree with that, but I guess I was kind of thinking that because there are so many ways to store a location containing these quick features that it might be better to instead describe the features with that in mind.

Along with that I was thinking it could become a more official and unique term which would also allow for better marketing of these features. However the same could be done by just coming up with a heading that these functions would fall under. In either case, that's where the more descriptive name pays off.

But alas, I'm not coming up with that great name.

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 16:42**

Just curious:

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Script items in Catalog show special icons only when Enable Extended Scripting is ON.

What is the background behind this? Is there some potential harm in showing the icon?

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 16:47**

j_c_hallgren wrote:Just curious:
Code: Select all
Script items in Catalog show special icons only when Enable Extended Scripting is ON.
What is the background behind this? Is there some potential harm in showing the icon?

Maybe you missed the previous sentence.
Scripts won't work from catalog if extended scripting is not enabled. Therefore no icons.

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- Enable Extended Scripting 
        Enable entering scripts through location interfaces (Address 
        Bar, Go To, Catalog, Favorites). Such scripts must be 
        additionally prefixed with a double-colon (::) to distinguish 
        them from normal locations.

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 16:49**

Picking up on the new scripting menu option - enter script
can this be extended to include a save script as a file to location.
I also think that in time this enter script could have some built in editing, colour and formatting features or is this a step too far?

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 16:59**

serendipity wrote:Maybe you missed the previous sentence.
Scripts won't work from catalog if extended scripting is not enabled. Therefore no icons.
Code: Select all
- Enable Extended Scripting 
        Enable entering scripts through location interfaces (Address 
        Bar, Go To, Catalog, Favorites).

I saw that, but the specific situation that I was anticipating (haven't tried it) was when an pre-existing script was in the Catalog and then EES was turned off, as to what would occur.

Because, if you can't even enter them with EES=off, then disabling icons doesn't matter, right?

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 17:04**

j_c_hallgren wrote:... but the specific situation that I was anticipating (haven't tried it) was when an pre-existing script was in the Catalog and then EES was turned off, as to what would occur.

Mine says "Couldnt find location" followed by the my script.

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 17:04**

j_c_hallgren wrote:I saw that, but the specific situation that I was anticipating (haven't tried it) was when an pre-existing script was in the Catalog and then EES was turned off, as to what would occur.

Well, you'll probably see that case (if you have Catalog items with scripts), as the new option isn't enabled by default. And in such case the Script icon doesn't show, since the script won't be executed (you get an error like "Couldn't go to location: ::command here"

So maybe no harm in showing the icon, but it's misleading since there's no script support, why show the Script icon ?

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 17:06**

graham wrote:Picking up on the new scripting menu option - enter script
can this be extended to include a save script as a file to location.
I also think that in time this enter script could have some built in editing, colour and formatting features or is this a step too far?

Does it make sense to have a Save Script menu item, or should the Try dialog be more powerful than it is?

What I mean is should the Try dialog in it's current incarnation be removed and replaced with an "Edit Script" dialog, which would include buttons to "Execute Script", "Load Script File", "Save Script File"? I feel Don will eventually take it there, but I wonder if this is something that should really be part of the introduction of scripting in 7.0.

--------------

Also to take this further, it would be interesting to extend this menu to include a Script File. Either have a "ScriptMenu.xys" file which will be used to display scripts in this menu, or make it a user option to select a file. Then the file would be used to dynamically generate part of this menu, in addition to this static content.

EDIT: Note that I'm not suggesting this ScriptMenu.xys to be implemented for 7.0, just another thing to think about for after this big release.

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 17:24**

jacky wrote:So maybe no harm in showing the icon, but it's misleading since there's no script support, why show the Script icon ?

Maybe the solution would be an alternate icon...something like Script but in another color, like red, or the existing one with a red line thru it, etc.

That would show that it's a script but currently disabled...

Addendum/Upd: This would apply if ESS=off but also when Scripting is turned off...

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 17:32**

TheQwerty wrote:What I mean is should the Try dialog in it's current incarnation be removed and replaced with an "Edit Script" dialog, which would include buttons to "Execute Script", "Load Script File", "Save Script File"? I feel Don will eventually take it there, but I wonder if this is something that should really be part of the introduction of scripting in 7.0.

I'm not sure this will happen/would be a such good idea. This is here to allow one to easily test/debug some scripts, but it you want to full edit mode, just work on a script file using your favorite text editor (with its full features like syntax color, search & replace, etc) and simply use a (temporary) UDC/Catalog item to trigger it.
I may be wrong here, but I don't really see the need for this...

TheQwerty wrote:Also to take this further, it would be interesting to extend this menu to include a Script File. Either have a "ScriptMenu.xys" file which will be used to display scripts in this menu, or make it a user option to select a file. Then the file would be used to dynamically generate part of this menu, in addition to this static content.

hmm.. may I ask why ?
We have UDC for such a thing, and I'd say that's enough. Plus, we can use label, there's no problem of refreshing, etc I'd say this menu should be a XY menu only, keep the User menu for user stuff

Since this was discussed here, question for Don :

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    * Configuration | Advanced | Enable Scripting: Now, 
      if OFF then 
        - Scripting related controls in CKS and UDC are hidden

What does that mean ? Cause I expected my UDC Categories (submenus) Run Script & Load Script File to go away, yet they stayed there!

In fact, the menu Scripting may have disappeared from the menubar but it was still shown on CKS.

(Unrelated-PS: It's not just with Extended, turning "Enable scripting" OFF doesn't refresh Catalog items either and they are also still showing Script icons)

Edit: Oh and I think option "Enable Extended Script" should be on Config as well, under "Enable scripting"

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 18:20**

jacky wrote:[a lot of nay-saying]

Personally, I find the try dialog pretty much useless as it stands today. It's easier to use a temp file. My suggestion would make it easier to get novices into scripting, and would turn that dialog into something that I might use.

I also find the User menu far too busy. Perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if instead of disabling items they were just not displayed. I don't imagine this new Scripting menu is going to have a lot of items so I think it makes perfect sense to spread the wealth of the User menu so that users can keep their Scripts and UDCs separate.

Though to be entirely honest I'm finding that I'm only using UDCs anymore to call scripts or assign them shortcuts. In my mind it would make more sense to completely replace UDCs with a script editor/generator which could put a very user friendly GUI to script creation and still accomplish the same thing.

/me shrugs.
Doesn't really matter to me either way - it's just what I'd be heading towards if I were Don (and had his skills).

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 20:50**

graham wrote:Picking up on the new scripting menu option - enter script
can this be extended to include a save script as a file to location.
I also think that in time this enter script could have some built in editing, colour and formatting features or is this a step too far?

Is all planned for scripting 2.0...
Also I plan to automatically append a list of all \scripts\*.xys files to the menu for one-click open those files.

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 21:03**

jacky wrote:Since this was discussed here, question for Don :
Code: Select all
    * Configuration | Advanced | Enable Scripting: Now, 
      if OFF then 
        - Scripting related controls in CKS and UDC are hidden
What does that mean ? Cause I expected my UDC Categories (submenus) Run Script & Load Script File to go away, yet they stayed there!
In fact, the menu Scripting may have disappeared from the menubar but it was still shown on CKS.

I meant those #1111 buttons and context menu items in CKS.

Maybe it's not such a good idea to hide the Scripting menu? It feels funny...

jacky wrote:(Unrelated-PS: It's not just with Extended, turning "Enable scripting" OFF doesn't refresh Catalog items either and they are also still showing Script icons)

That's okay since you can use them by OKing the prompt.

jacky wrote:Edit: Oh and I think option "Enable Extended Script" should be on Config as well, under "Enable scripting"

Actually today I thought it should be only in config! It's not a thing you are likely to switch on and off all the time. It's a typical one-time setting.

Posted: **28 Feb 2008 23:09**

admin wrote: Maybe it's not such a good idea to hide the Scripting menu? It feels funny...

jacky wrote:Edit: Oh and I think option "Enable Extended Script" should be on Config as well, under "Enable scripting"
Actually today I thought it should be only in config! It's not a thing you are likely to switch on and off all the time. It's a typical one-time setting.

Yes, EES should likely be only in config...and why exactly is that option really needed? Under what conditions would a user want to have "half"-scripting or whatever it would be?

And on hiding menus: Just graying out options is more what I'd typically find in app's, so that method would be also ok here, I think.

XYplorer Beta Club

Enter Script...