XYplorer Beta Club

admin wrote:

Mesh wrote:Okay, what do people think of this method of highlighting the active pane - in addition to the tab highlight that is already being used, this mockup shows a 2 pixel line under the tabs.

Not bad. I would not have the line under the selected tab header though.

How about having that border around the whole list? Modifying Mesh's original file, something like this:

serendipity wrote:
How about having that border around the whole list? Modifying Mesh's original file, something like this:

XY-PaneFocus.jpg

<shudder>

I can't begin to express how ugly that looks. It was suggested earlier, and my opinion was that it would look like a piece of fine art circled in crayon. Now that I've seen a mockup, I have to say that my earlier feelings stand. Yikes.

Mesh wrote:

serendipity wrote:
How about having that border around the whole list? Modifying Mesh's original file, something like this:

The attachment XY-PaneFocus.jpg is no longer available

<shudder>

I can't begin to express how ugly that looks. It was suggested earlier, and my opinion was that it would look like a piece of fine art circled in crayon. Now that I've seen a mockup, I have to say that my earlier feelings stand. Yikes.

I am sorry if that was so ugly. But like somebody mentioned subtle is no good, it has be obvious which pane you are doing an action on. Maybe Don should review other DPs around and choose whats best.
By the way, here's a mockup of darker inactive pane:

mesh wrote:

I've used systems that do this, and I absolutely can't stand it. As you shift which pane is active, the changing background colors make it seem like you're about to have an epileptic seizure.

May i suggest it was done badly then - what I am suggesting is a very slight (subtle) background colour tint which in the whole shows but probably in a small line or area would be invisible. Can't be bothered to draw a mock up but it really depends on the severity of the colour change - no epileptic s seizure possible.

edit - just seen Serendipity version and that is more along the lines I suggested

Don wrote

about a name - panes- why not simply DP

serendipity wrote:
I am sorry if that was so ugly. But like somebody mentioned subtle is no good, it has be obvious which pane you are doing an action on. Maybe Don should review other DPs around and choose whats best.

No, it's not that subtle is no good. Subtle is very good - you just don't want it too subtle. The 2 pixel line I mocked up is still subtle, but it makes it clear which pane is active without doing anything garish.

graham wrote:
May i suggest it was done badly then - what I am suggesting is a very slight (subtle) background colour tint which in the whole shows but probably in a small line or area would be invisible. Can't be bothered to draw a mock up but it really depends on the severity of the colour change - no epileptic s seizure possible.

edit - just seen Serendipity version and that is more along the lines I suggested

No, it's still a problem - the point is that you end up with large blocks flashing different colors. It's extremely distracting and annoying - especially when you are doing a lot of work switching panes.

graham wrote:
Don wrote

about a name - panes- why not simply DP

That would be a poor choice because it's only obvious to people who are familiar with it - new users would have no clue what it stands for.

OK, moving my Dual Pane Ideas entry over to here, as this looks like the place to be at...

as of Build 401....

For much easier use....


Toolbar Icons needed that:

- Show two panes side by side (sometimes called show two horiz pane)
- Show two panes top and bottom (sometimes called show two vert pane)

Since dual-pane is VIP to many users, those two icons should be enabled and displayed by default when the program opens originally, so that ALL users know they are capable and present.

Of course, from that point on, the end-user can set-up the system their way, electing to keep the dual-pane icons or not, etc.


The Dual Pane option must be easier to locate and enable.

The use of the icons as above is the user-easiest and most direct way...but the textual menu system has to have Dual Pane almost in more than one drop-down menu, as Dual Pane could be needed in more than one circumstance.

There's no reason to make users go hunting for Dual Pane, as that only serves to frustrate everyone.


Vital:

Almost any right-click then shows pop-up menu, the same options as under "icons needed that:" have to be present.

Nearly everyone right clicks to see options, for example on a particular drive or tab display, and having the two most used Dual Pane options right there is very obvious to users and is somewhat common to other dual-pane apps -- almost expected to be there, etc.


Initial DP efforts looking good, though...a VERY good file manager getting even better.

Joe

Mesh wrote:

graham wrote:
May i suggest it was done badly then - what I am suggesting is a very slight (subtle) background colour tint which in the whole shows but probably in a small line or area would be invisible. Can't be bothered to draw a mock up but it really depends on the severity of the colour change - no epileptic s seizure possible.

edit - just seen Serendipity version and that is more along the lines I suggested

No, it's still a problem - the point is that you end up with large blocks flashing different colors. It's extremely distracting and annoying - especially when you are doing a lot of work switching panes.

Just to be clear, its not different colors at all, its just a touch darker shade of the same pane (will look something like the configurable sorted column). If its configurable, user can choose to make it as subtle/bold as he/she wants. But ofcourse, Don can offer this and the golden frame over tab as two options for users to choose from. My 2 cents.

admin wrote:Focus other pane
Copy to (also from?) other pane
Move to (also from?) other pane
Synchronize Panes
Synchronized Scrolling (checkbox/toggle)
Apply list settings from other pane
Swap Panes (how big is the demand for this?)
Refresh both Panes

By Synchronize do you mean copying new files from one pane to the other (the normal meaning of the term) or, as I found in one file manager, open the same directory in the other pane. The latter is a command I use dozens of times a day. Target = source is the more common term (and it's reverse).

Swap panes would, I assume, swap all the tabs. Not often used but is a very standard command.

Swap tabs (also called swap panes) is a regular command I use. It only swaps the active and inactive tabs.

Synchronized Scrolling, a Godsend if one pane is in thumbnail and the other in detail - you get the best of both worlds. x² calls it "mirror scrolling".

Compare directories (and sub directories) by content (byte-by-byte) is a regular command I use, but that's getting into a whole new ball game. Likewise zip / unzip to other pane, but I know it's already been talked about.

Maximise 1st / 2nd pane. Not the same as switching to single pane because the copy / move commands still work to the inactive (but not visible) pane. Useful with long file names as an alternative to switching to horizontal view.

Open selected directory in other pane. Can either replace the current tab in the other pane or open a new one - I normally use the former.


Can't decide if I prefer the line or the frame.
I've just made a mock-up to fill my entire screen and two pixels high is hardly noticeable in 1920 x 1200, so neither is effective for large displays. Incidentally, your colour for the frame is almost identical to my XY background - all my colours are standard, or contrasting, harmonies of XY's yellow, so would be totally invisible unless I could change it.

If Don adopts the most common method - pane header - then it can be whatever colours the user wants. Subtle differences or strong contrasts. Even go down the road of having one pane header shaded dark to light, but I think that is getting too gimmicky.


On the topic of adding another menu. One of the first reactions of many of the people I show XY to is "The menus are too large and have far too many items in them that are of no use [to them]". Custom menus are something that, as far as I know, have not been discussed.

RE: Flashing Tabs or Panes, etc.

Excuse me if I entered the conversation late, which I am sure I did...

But if the idea is flashing or "easily seen" colors on Tabs or Panes to tell people what's active or not, or other information...

How about user-optional flashing only once or twice so that it attracts the required attention, maybe 1 or 2 flashes total, over a second or 1.5 seconds, but it doesn't get annoying.

After that, no more flashes for that particular action unless user goes back and happens to have to do the same process ?


RE: The Active Tab (and/or Pane)

The active Tab or Pane can still have a colored tab and/or a broad-enough outline color around the active Tab and/or Pane.

Just a thought.

serendipity wrote:Just to be clear, its not different colors at all, its just a touch darker shade of the same pane (will look something like the configurable sorted column). If its configurable, user can choose to make it as subtle/bold as he/she wants. But ofcourse, Don can offer this and the golden frame over tab as two options for users to choose from. My 2 cents.

One problem I have with using the background to signify this is we already allow using the background to mean so much else (different list modes and you can apply the box colors to the background). So hinging something else onto that makes it confusing and devalues the other meanings.

The other issue is that it's not really that easy to rely on when you return to the window. It works great when in the work flow as it appears as a change, but otherwise it's not immediately noticed that there's a difference and it would be more difficult because of my first point.

Regarding the line above vs. the frame, I don't think the line above looks any better than the frame. What I like about the frame is it kind of lassos your attention and focuses it on the control it surrounds. The color would need to be customizable and I certainly wouldn't try to loop around the tab as well - just a frame around the rectangle.

The frame vs. an info bar in each pane. The frame could probably be done with just a pixel or two, so vertically we lose 4 pixels. The info bar is going to take up probably 2-4 times that, and it's more space than I'm willing to give up. I also feel it's going to give the GUI a more cluttered feel, but this is of course without seeing it, so I'll hold my final judgment until Don produces something.

josephrot wrote:
The Dual Pane option must be easier to locate and enable.

The use of the icons as above is the user-easiest and most direct way...but the textual menu system has to have Dual Pane almost in more than one drop-down menu, as Dual Pane could be needed in more than one circumstance.

There's no reason to make users go hunting for Dual Pane, as that only serves to frustrate everyone.

I don't think it needs to be in more than one drop down menu - it adds unnecessary redundancy. The common approach is to put it into the Window menu, as that is the most logical place for it. If Don adds a dedicated menu, than it can go there - otherwise, the Window menu makes the most sense.

josephrot wrote:
Vital:

Almost any right-click then shows pop-up menu, the same options as under "icons needed that:" have to be present.

Nearly everyone right clicks to see options, for example on a particular drive or tab display, and having the two most used Dual Pane options right there is very obvious to users and is somewhat common to other dual-pane apps -- almost expected to be there, etc.

I disagree. I don't think it belongs in a right click menu at all. This is not a context sensitive item, but a global command.

serendipity wrote:
Just to be clear, its not different colors at all, its just a touch darker shade of the same pane (will look something like the configurable sorted column). If its configurable, user can choose to make it as subtle/bold as he/she wants. But ofcourse, Don can offer this and the golden frame over tab as two options for users to choose from. My 2 cents.

It is most definitely different colors. Differences in lightness and darkness still qualify - thus the difference between deep purple and lavender. It's still large blocks that flash different colors.

josephrot wrote:
RE: Flashing Tabs or Panes, etc.

Excuse me if I entered the conversation late, which I am sure I did...

But if the idea is flashing or "easily seen" colors on Tabs or Panes to tell people what's active or not, or other information...

How about user-optional flashing only once or twice so that it attracts the required attention, maybe 1 or 2 flashes total, over a second or 1.5 seconds, but it doesn't get annoying.

After that, no more flashes for that particular action unless user goes back and happens to have to do the same process ?

I can't speak for others, but for me the idea of flashing being used in XY is revolting. It adds an immediate annoyance factor similar to things that jump up and down trying to get your attention.

Mesh wrote:

serendipity wrote:
Just to be clear, its not different colors at all, its just a touch darker shade of the same pane (will look something like the configurable sorted column). If its configurable, user can choose to make it as subtle/bold as he/she wants. But ofcourse, Don can offer this and the golden frame over tab as two options for users to choose from. My 2 cents.

It is most definitely different colors. Differences in lightness and darkness still qualify - thus the difference between deep purple and lavender. It's still large blocks that flash different colors.

Hmm don't want to argue here, but by analogy: my car has two colors depending on if its in the sun or shade. Good selling point there for me.
OK lets say it is different colors then, but as long its very light its not that bad i think. And my problem with yellow highlight is this situation:
1) I have the classic style tabs
2) I have turned off the yellow highlight.
3) Focus is not on either panes (on AB or tree or elsewhere)
There is no way to find out which pane is active. And imagine someone like you who doesnt like tabs has just one tab per pane, if he switches the tab bar OFF then its even worse. The active/inactive state of the pane should be visible on the list not tab (since one can hide it) in my opinion.