XYplorer Beta Club

Posted: **24 Sep 2010 16:00**

zer0 wrote:How would we differentiate between these potential converts and existing XY users?

I'm not sure but given that I still have to resort to using x2 for these functions and without them in XY, will continue to have to do so which is not desirable either...

Just because the former may be used to it, it does not mean that it is in the spirit of what the latter have grown accustom to. I and Don agree on this point: usability is not its strongest point.

But there is currently a pop-up with a couple of choices possible...so adding more options does NOT mean it becomes less useful...there's no requirement that user has to set options each time...and without this level of flexability the value of the option is greatly reduced and since we're trying to create a product that users want/need, having a feature that is so limited when compared to at least one other similar FM doesn't help from a sales aspect.

Thus I'm agreeing with Stephen here..

Posted: **24 Sep 2010 17:09**

j_c_hallgren wrote:
zer0 wrote:How would we differentiate between these potential converts and existing XY users?
I'm not sure but given that I still have to resort to using x2 for these functions and without them in XY, will continue to have to do so which is not desirable either...

I'm not arguing against having it present, just wondering as to whose needs/expectations supersede whose.

j_c_hallgren wrote:
ivan wrote:Just because the former may be used to it, it does not mean that it is in the spirit of what the latter have grown accustom to. I and Don agree on this point: usability is not its strongest point.
But there is currently a pop-up with a couple of choices possible...so adding more options does NOT mean it becomes less useful...there's no requirement that user has to set options each time...and without this level of flexability the value of the option is greatly reduced and since we're trying to create a product that users want/need, having a feature that is so limited when compared to at least one other similar FM doesn't help from a sales aspect.

Like I said above, I'm not against the functionality. But I am against overcomplicating things even if they are on a set-and-forget basis. As this would be a new feature to XYplorer, we should take a smarter approach to its design rather than shoehorn aspects from another FM into XY's wrapper.

Posted: **25 Sep 2010 15:18**

Stefan wrote:And while trying to remember my weekly needs:

Select newer
Select all matching but newer items

Select bigger
Select all matching but bigger items

Is the current "Select Uniques and Newer" okay for you?

Select bigger... I'm surprised by this wish. Why are you interested in bigger files as opposed to newer files?

@all: I will focus on Select commands first. Are there important (= commands you would actually need and use regularly) select commands missing?

Posted: **25 Sep 2010 16:29**

In the latest beta, there is a bit of a glitch when double-clicking the commands. Quite often, i.e non-reproducible at will, a selection is created and then immediately lost -- as if I clicked one more time to cause this (which I didn't

).

Posted: **25 Sep 2010 16:33**

zer0 wrote:In the latest beta, there is a bit of a glitch when double-clicking the commands. Quite often, i.e non-reproducible at will, a selection is created and then immediately lost -- as if I clicked one more time to cause this (which I didn't ).

Yep, already fixed this morning!

This is because the dbl-click in Windows is actually triggered at DOWN-UP-DOWN (which I find strange to say the least), and the last UP is passed as normal MouseUp event to the control where the mouse happens to be at that moment. If it is over the active pane it will unselect any selections.

Posted: **25 Sep 2010 17:43**

admin wrote:
Stefan wrote:And while trying to remember my weekly needs:

Select newer
Select all matching but newer items

Select bigger
Select all matching but bigger items
Is the current "Select Uniques and Newer" okay for you?

Select bigger... I'm surprised by this wish. Why are you interested in bigger files as opposed to newer files?

Thanks for asking.

admin> Is the current "Select Uniques and Newer" okay for you?
I find it not useful to combine two queries by default.
Sometimes one want to select Newer only, but is not interested in Unique ones. And vice versa.
So i want to select my Newer log files, but not all other files unique in this folder.

admin>Select bigger... I'm surprised by this wish. Why are you interested in bigger files as opposed to newer files?
Newer is not always Bigger too the same time.
Newer could be smaller often, e.g. an empty Sales.doc may be newer but smaller as an older but already filled one.

Some visualization to see some possible scenarios:

Code: Select all

Left														Right
Name						Size	Date			Name						Size	Date
History.txt		 200		2009		   History.txt		   30		2010
Download.htm		 10		2010			Download.htm		 10		2009
XYplorer.chm		210		2009			XYplorer.chm		200		2010
XYplorer.exe		300		2009			XYplorer.exe		310		2010
XYplorer.pdf		200		2008			XYCopy.exe		   80		2010



Show me what is left newer:   Download.htm
Show me what is left bigger:  History.txt, XYplorer.chm
Show me what is left unique:  XYplorer.pdf
Show me what is left missing: XYCopy.exe

See, my History.txt is on the left older, but since i collect my own notices, it is bigger then the new one.

So i want to match what is left
   Newer   (to keep it maybe and so don't overwrite it)
OR Bigger  (to check if the more is important or can be overwritten with no harm)
OR Unique  (to check if it could be deleted now, or copy to the right too) 
OR Missing (to see what's new and get this too on the left)

I hope this is not nonsense since it is not an real need. I have often comparison jobs, but can't explain them not now in words. Over the time, when i have an issue, i can better tell

---

I find your current Sync Tool dialog not very useful
because i can't select more then one criteria at time.
And to add all possible combinations seams not useful either.
So please consider one more time the check boxes layout.
http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic. ... 268#p52268 (picture included)

---

Additional ideas, (not suggestions/wishes)

- i don't know how much work this is, but how about temporarily TAGging selected items by different colors for each criteria (newer, unique,...)
Or different selection colors.
You could switch to an "Sync Tool default coloring schema" to not conflict with user colors.
(Yes, i know. See my new sig)

- how about an summary dialog at the end. (specially for comparing longer lists of files)
Compared Left 102 / Right 103 items
6 are different
3 are newer
1 are unique
or smtg like that.

---

HTH?

Posted: **25 Sep 2010 18:51**

I want to keep it simple.

For me "Select Uniques and Newer" is what I use most of the time: it answers the question "Which items need to be backupped in an incremental backup?".

I will add "Select Newer" as well.

Later you can build your own complex + powerful interface using scripting, especially with the commands inputselect, html, sync, selectitems (the latter two will come soon).

Posted: **25 Sep 2010 20:09**

Just to verify: "select" isn't accumulating, but resets previous selection before being executed?
I.e. I can't select "Uniques", and then *add* selection of "Newer"?

Posted: **25 Sep 2010 20:20**

PeterH wrote:Just to verify: "select" isn't accumulating, but resets previous selection before being executed?
I.e. I can't select "Uniques", and then *add* selection of "Newer"?

Currently not but I plan to add the CTRL/SHIFT trick that's already working in Selection Filter...

Posted: **28 Sep 2010 20:43**

admin wrote:
PeterH wrote:Just to verify: "select" isn't accumulating, but resets previous selection before being executed?
I.e. I can't select "Uniques", and then *add* selection of "Newer"?
Currently not but I plan to add the CTRL/SHIFT trick that's already working in Selection Filter...

Done.

(As you might have noted)

So, are 95% of all dual pane based and reality driven sync selection wishes fulfilled? Looks like.

Conc. "Select bigger". I still do not understand why one would want this selection instead of "Select newer".

I know that newer files are not necessarily bigger, but so what? I'm still interested in the newer ones rather than in the bigger ones. Yes, I know: Size does matter. But yesterday's size? Who cares...

Posted: **28 Sep 2010 21:17**

admin wrote:Conc. "Select bigger". I still do not understand why one would want this selection instead of "Select newer". I know that newer files are not necessarily bigger, but so what? I'm still interested in the newer ones rather than in the bigger ones. Yes, I know: Size does matter. But yesterday's size? Who cares...

I could see "Select Bigger" being useful in cases where typically bigger is considered better, so in many cases where compression is used.

Comparing images or music, one may be more interested in the original source material rather than the further compressed/edited (and newer) versions. In those situations selecting the bigger may be more appropriate.

Posted: **28 Sep 2010 21:36**

TheQwerty wrote:
admin wrote:Conc. "Select bigger". I still do not understand why one would want this selection instead of "Select newer". I know that newer files are not necessarily bigger, but so what? I'm still interested in the newer ones rather than in the bigger ones. Yes, I know: Size does matter. But yesterday's size? Who cares...
I could see "Select Bigger" being useful in cases where typically bigger is considered better, so in many cases where compression is used.

Comparing images or music, one may be more interested in the original source material rather than the further compressed/edited (and newer) versions. In those situations selecting the bigger may be more appropriate.

But those variants would have different extensions most of the times, or different names (I would never save an edited version of an original under the same name in another folder). The Ignore Extensions switch has to be ignored when real file properties are compared, as file dates or sizes.

Posted: **28 Sep 2010 21:51**

admin wrote:But those variants would have different extensions most of the times, or different names (I would never save an edited version of an original under the same name in another folder).

But they wouldn't necessarily have to, and that's where something like Select Bigger would be useful.

You can rip a CD to MP3, or a DVD to AVI using a ton of programs each with a multitude of settings that will affect the quality and file size.

In those cases being able to select the bigger item might be much more useful than selecting the newest one.

Posted: **28 Sep 2010 23:00**

admin wrote:
admin wrote:
PeterH wrote:Just to verify: "select" isn't accumulating, but resets previous selection before being executed?
I.e. I can't select "Uniques", and then *add* selection of "Newer"?
Currently not but I plan to add the CTRL/SHIFT trick that's already working in Selection Filter...
Done. (As you might have noted)

So, are 95% of all dual pane based and reality driven sync selection wishes fulfilled? Looks like.

Hey - not only these mentioned functions "new" and "add" (selection), but also "remove"

I didn't think of that, but really not bad

Posted: **29 Sep 2010 02:37**

Don, what things do you envision being in this dialog other than selection modifications?

I'm a bit disappointed in this feature thus far. I've been holding back judgment, but it's beginning to sound like you're planning on moving on to something else, so before I attempt to put my thoughts into some constructive criticism I'd like to know where you plan to eventually take this.

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