XYplorer Beta Club

blockrocker wrote:Isn't the purpose of XYplorer to give us a better and faster workflow in Windows? Well, the way I see it, it only succeeds 50% of the time, if we still need to use the standard windows explorer in the other half of the situations (perhaps even more).

Just my 2 cents. Please don't get offended.

I'm not at all offended...but I think that using XY, you just approach it from a bit different view...that is, I tend to use XY to open the file vs using the application...now that doesn't help in Save, but it does with open.

j_c_hallgren wrote:

blockrocker wrote:Isn't the purpose of XYplorer to give us a better and faster workflow in Windows? Well, the way I see it, it only succeeds 50% of the time, if we still need to use the standard windows explorer in the other half of the situations (perhaps even more).

Just my 2 cents. Please don't get offended.

I'm not at all offended...but I think that using XY, you just approach it from a bit different view...that is, I tend to use XY to open the file vs using the application...now that doesn't help in Save, but it does with open.

Exactly. (And who needs a file manager to save an opened file to disk?)

blockrocker wrote:Why shouldn't the same means be used to help us with all the situations in which we experience frustration because of the standard Windows Explorer feature set?

May I ask if you have submitted feedback to Microsoft to say just how frustrated you are?

blockrocker wrote: I totally agree. That's why I'm trying to find out what more universally useful feature could there possibly be than this? I mean I believe people buy this software to replace Windows Explorer. That's why I bought it. It was a huge disappointment to realize that it wouldn't replace Windows Explorer in over 50% of the situations (when actually working with some software, which I believe is the most wide spread purpose of computers).

Isn't the purpose of XYplorer to give us a better and faster workflow in Windows? Well, the way I see it, it only succeeds 50% of the time, if we still need to use the standard windows explorer in the other half of the situations (perhaps even more).

Just my 2 cents. Please don't get offended.

Please be careful not to confuse Windows Explorer with Windows Shell. The former is a file manager application. The latter is a GUI of MS Windows -- and what provides those Open/Save dialogue windows. They are not the same

So...in buying "this software", you are replacing Windows Explorer with another file manager. You are not replacing Windows Shell. May I ask if, prior to your purchase, you used a trial? Your disappointment would have been avoided if you spent 30 days taking it for a spin

Yes, one of XYplorer's purposes is to give us better and faster workflow in Windows. The degree of success depends on how many of its features are employed to assist and how efficiently they are used. As to the number of situations when Windows Explorer needs to be used, we are coming back to it being relative to individual needs. Speak of the devil actually, as recently my need to use WE has reduced -- it has not gone completely yet -- as I found a way to do a special kind of renaming in XYplorer that I did not know was possible before

admin wrote: Exactly. (And who needs a file manager to save an opened file to disk?)

I guess those who want to be able to navigate to the right folder more quickly than windows explorer allows. Also, it's not only "open file" and "save as" functions that would benefit, I use "import file" and "export file" functions too and run external scripts that require browsing trough the software interface on a regular basis. I would even make the bold claim that when you do your days work with software, most of the file management is done trough this software, not by opening windows explorer.

Is there anyone in here who can honestly say they would not benefit from more efficient file saving/importing/exporting at all? Because nobody answered this question directly so far: What other feature that is being developed (or is considered to be developed) at the moment would benefit a broader range of computer users?

blockrocker wrote: What other feature that is being developed (or is considered to be developed) at the moment would benefit a broader range of computer users?

Well, looking at the roadmap http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=830, there seem to be a nbr of items that have come up more often here than this so....I can't say that this is more or less important than these but based on nbr of times threads get created about file open/save, it does seem to be rather popular...but...also remember this:

zer0 wrote:Please be careful not to confuse Windows Explorer with Windows Shell. The former is a file manager application. The latter is a GUI of MS Windows -- and what provides those Open/Save dialogue windows. They are not the same

Which puts this function in another category which is NOT a file manager.

j_c_hallgren wrote: Which puts this function in another category which is NOT a file manager.

It doesn't matter what name tag you give it. File management is definetly needed when saving/opening/importing/exporting. Thus a good file manager would help in those situations too. Directory Opus certainly does.

I realize that if you use your computer mostly for watching movies, you might not need this feature so bad. But as soon as you start doing some serious work with different applications that might require multiple file formats, intermediate files and complex folder hierarchies then you really start asking for something like XYplorer to help you out.

The way I see it, this kind of tighter integration with windows file management would be a very natural and useful step for XYplorer. But obviously you guys don't see it the same way, no matter what. I guess I have to simply give up any hope for XYplorer developing in this direction and start looking for another solution -one that doesn't limit itself with artifial boundaries (I mean do you really think the end user cares whether something happens is shell or explorer, as long as the job gets done?).

blockrocker wrote:The way I see it, this kind of tighter integration with windows file management would be a very natural and useful step for XYplorer. But obviously you guys don't see it the same way, no matter what. I guess I have to simply give up any hope for XYplorer developing in this direction and start looking for another solution -one that doesn't limit itself with artifial boundaries (I mean do you really think the end user cares whether something happens is shell or explorer, as long as the job gets done?).

I've never said that I don't believe that this type of function shouldn't be in XY...just that it's not a top priority (to me and likely to some others) compared to other issues...now would I use it? Of course! But if it's not there, I'm not going to give up on XY either because of how much benefit it is to me.

And I wouldn't give up hope on XY just because of this...but I'd also not expect it to be done that soon if it is...and yes, we DO have users who care about things like shell vs explorer...maybe that's unusual but so is XY, esp when it comes to speed of development...I don't think you'll find another FM whose author is SO interactive with his users, ok? So...Give us a chance, please!

An improvement to those dialog (especially if it were something speedy) would be very much welcomed, but frankly I'm not sure it's even possible. Is there any actual proof that something already does this?

That freeware program posted earlier appears to just be a context menu shell extension that either changes the dialog's location or returns the user-defined locations upon selection, but without installing it I see zero evidence that it actually replaces the dialogs.

Looking through the DOpus help files doesn't show me anything that says it can do this type of replacement either, if it can could someone provide some screenshots or a video?


This is a deep system-wide replacement on a dialog that most apps expect to behave and respond in a very specific way (as defined by the Windows API), I would be shocked if it were possible to actually replace them.

TheQwerty wrote:An improvement to those dialog (especially if it were something speedy) would be very much welcomed, but frankly I'm not sure it's even possible. Is there any actual proof that something already does this?

That freeware program posted earlier appears to just be a context menu shell extension that either changes the dialog's location or returns the user-defined locations upon selection, but without installing it I see zero evidence that it actually replaces the dialogs.

Looking through the DOpus help files doesn't show me anything that says it can do this type of replacement either, if it can could someone provide some screenshots or a video?


This is a deep system-wide replacement on a dialog that most apps expect to behave and respond in a very specific way (as defined by the Windows API), I would be shocked if it were possible to actually replace them.

I installed the freeware program. It shows up in the "open file" and "save file" windows when I right-click. After right-clicking I can choose a favourite location from a user defined list of favourites. Even this small improvement is very helpful, since it saves me closer to ten mouse clicks in situations in which I need to access folders buried deep in a complex folder structure. If even a freeware program does this, I don't see why it wouldn't be a doable feature for XYplorer.

Directory Opus I don't own yet, but they have a comparison chart against other file managers on their web page that shows this feature. Also other users on this forum have witnessed that Directory Opus indeed does what I'm after.

blockrocker wrote:After right-clicking I can choose a favourite location from a user defined list of favourites.

And when you select a favorite location does it browse to that location in the dialog? Or is the dialog closed and that location is just used?

blockrocker wrote:Directory Opus I don't own yet, but they have a comparison chart against other file managers on their web page that shows this feature. Also other users on this forum have witnessed that Directory Opus indeed does what I'm after.

Only one other user has commented on it and if you haven't seen it how do you know it's something that you'd like? j_c_hallgren, can you please educate us on how DOpus interacts with the file dialog?


blockrocker, part of the reason you're seeing a lack of enthusiasm for this feature is you haven't yet clearly defined what you want. You're title says replace these dialogs, but with what exactly? And the example you're providing doesn't actually replace the dialogs (lending further evidence that it cannot be done) just extends them.

So if XY were to extend the dialog what should it do - add a sub-menu to the shell's context menu to easily browse the favorites you've defined in XY? Clearly defining what it is you're wishing for, and thinking it out thoroughly is (I believe) an immense help to Don when he evaluates what to add to XY and when.


What could possibly be worth adding before this wish, how about the things that have been well thought out and have percolated a bit on paper and in mind?

TheQwerty wrote: j_c_hallgren, can you please educate us on how DOpus interacts with the file dialog?

For the record, i don't have DO and haven't used it but I've seen it mentioned in prior threads about this topic as being capable of doing so, and thus just mentioned that...

Also, given that FolderGuide seems to consist of a DLL as a context menu extension (use of DLL seems to be a requirement to be such...maybe I'm wrong?) and XY isn't into DLL'ing yet, that could be a problem.

Lots of programs modify the Open and Save windows in different ways - look at any text editor for example. It can't be that difficult. I've written my own Open and Save windows, so I can do what I want with them.

There is a program called Direct Folders that has a history and favourites feature. Double clicking on the Open or Save window pops up a list that you can select an item from and it opens that directory in the Open or Save window. Quick Folders was another, but that has been discontinued as far as I know.

I don't use DOpus in the Explorer replacement mode, I found it had some undesirable side effects, so I won't set it to that mode to see what it does. It's a long time since I initially installed it and I can't remember exactly how it interacted with the Open and Save windows.

Gandolf wrote:Lots of programs modify the Open and Save windows in different ways - look at any text editor for example. It can't be that difficult. I've written my own Open and Save windows, so I can do what I want with them.

You're talking about modifying the File Dialog within the program that creates it, which is vastly different from modifying the system-wide File Dialog provided by the shell and called by many programs.

I've only ever seen two methods that even hint that it might be possible to improve the shell's File Dialog.
1) A shell extension provides additional functionality through the context menu, as is the case with Folder Guide, and from what I can tell, Directory Opus.

2) A secondary program that provides functionality alone-side the dialog, and may control (but not replace) it - typically through automation. I believe most of Direct Folders' features are implemented this way.

But in either case, once again, they don't actually modify or replace the shell's File Dialog.


Regarding 1; sure Don could add a shell extension that can be installed which provides quicker access to the paths defined in XY's favorites or MRU lists, and it might not be a bad idea in the end. I don't think it should be a top priority anytime soon though. However, this doesn't actually have to be done by Don either - anyone could write an extension that accesses XY's INI files and uses the favorites or MRU lists, they'd just have to deal with the data being stale or convince Don to implement auto-save (I think I got close to this once... ).

In the case of 2, I personally feel it's a lot of work and beyond the scope of XY at the moment (not that my opinion matters). There's a reason that Direct Folder has a pay version even with its rather limited scope.



PS - Sorry about the confusion j_c_hallgren, thought you were speaking from experience about DOpus' capabilities!

TheQwerty wrote:

Gandolf wrote:Lots of programs modify the Open and Save windows in different ways - look at any text editor for example. It can't be that difficult. I've written my own Open and Save windows, so I can do what I want with them.

You're talking about modifying the File Dialog within the program that creates it, which is vastly different from modifying the system-wide File Dialog provided by the shell and called by many programs.

I've only ever seen two methods that even hint that it might be possible to improve the shell's File Dialog.
1) A shell extension provides additional functionality through the context menu, as is the case with Folder Guide, and from what I can tell, Directory Opus.

2) A secondary program that provides functionality alone-side the dialog, and may control (but not replace) it - typically through automation. I believe most of Direct Folders' features are implemented this way.

But in either case, once again, they don't actually modify or replace the shell's File Dialog.


Regarding 1; sure Don could add a shell extension that can be installed which provides quicker access to the paths defined in XY's favorites or MRU lists, and it might not be a bad idea in the end. I don't think it should be a top priority anytime soon though. However, this doesn't actually have to be done by Don either - anyone could write an extension that accesses XY's INI files and uses the favorites or MRU lists, they'd just have to deal with the data being stale or convince Don to implement auto-save (I think I got close to this once... ).

In the case of 2, I personally feel it's a lot of work and beyond the scope of XY at the moment (not that my opinion matters). There's a reason that Direct Folder has a pay version even with its rather limited scope.



PS - Sorry about the confusion j_c_hallgren, thought you were speaking from experience about DOpus' capabilities!

Whether it's a text editor or a file manager is irrelevant, as I said, I replace the system wide dialogues on my editing systems completely.

Just to check that it can be done, I threw together some of my assembler routines and added a bit of extra code, while on the flight back from Arrecife (which is where I've been working for the last ten days - hence the delay in replying). It modifies the system Open and Save As dialogues then runs XY minimised. If I Open (or Save As) from a program I get the modified window, right click on the minimise button in the title bar and XY restores (part of the modified code). I then navigate (in XY) to the directory I want and copy the path (from XY) to the clipboard. On minimising XY (or switching to the Open/Save As window) the path is pasted into the dialogue File name box, prefixing the default name. I have to use the clipboard, since I can't modify XY's code to transfer the path to the Open/Save As dialogue.

Since I only write in assembler, I don't know what the limitations of higher level languages are, it might not be possible with VB (if Don wanted to, that is).

Gandolf wrote:Just to check that it can be done, I threw together some of my assembler routines and added a bit of extra code, while on the flight back from Arrecife (which is where I've been working for the last ten days - hence the delay in replying). It modifies the system Open and Save As dialogues then runs XY minimised. If I Open (or Save As) from a program I get the modified window, right click on the minimise button in the title bar and XY restores (part of the modified code). I then navigate (in XY) to the directory I want and copy the path (from XY) to the clipboard. On minimising XY (or switching to the Open/Save As window) the path is pasted into the dialogue File name box, prefixing the default name. I have to use the clipboard, since I can't modify XY's code to transfer the path to the Open/Save As dialogue.

Since I only write in assembler, I don't know what the limitations of higher level languages are, it might not be possible with VB (if Don wanted to, that is).

Hmm... while I know next to nothing about coding, this does sound promising (if messy). I think if XY ever WERE to implement something like this, it ought not to use the full application window, but a scaled down version - say tree/list - without menubar, toolbars, catalog, etc. I'd love a tree in my open/save dialogs, but the full app window (which I always run maximised) would get extremely distracting for that sort of thing. Though, I am sure you're not actually suggesting THAT.

EDIT: I am aware that this is highly highly unlikely to happen in MY lifetime