XYplorer Beta Club

graham wrote:
You could play around with prices for ever more and it will make little difference.
Having not much to lose I'd like to test your opinion and play around a bit.

OK, You asked for it -

I would offer a special deal over the next three months for a 6.20 version with no support or updates at an introduction price, say $10. This version would not be time limited. Buyers also get a regular monthly email news update of enhancements made. Purpose, hopefully to increase user base and make users aware of the development change speed, and keep them actively involved so that they upgrade. The news letter is an opportunity to sell special unique features plus recently introduced enhancements and 'did you know XY does this'

Continue time limited free trial but with no email news update.

As an ex Marketing IT development manager and as yet, inexperienced user of XY I can fully appreciate how potential buyers would compare this product to those already out there and yet completely miss the special features unique to XY. Even after a trial, sometimes these need to be highlighted because they are not always obvious. I have learned a great deal just by following the user group reporting bugs and wishes and find myself thinking - I didn't know it could do that!

It is the unique features of XY that are often hidden from view and those are what would sell this product - buyers like support, growth and feature rich software without bloat. XY has these well above the competition.


The special can at any time be upgraded to a lifetime, supported license for $x.

admin wrote:(You should also have a special price to go from registered to lifetime registered, obviously)
--->>> too complex.

Why? It's only a "if user has license then he's entitled to a special price for lifetime license" kinda thing. It would only seem fair to me, just like when you have a license you have a special price for next version...

admin wrote:--->>> No. When I offer a full blown professional file manager for 14.95 you pay for the product, this product. You buy a car, a guitar, a banana, a file manager -- all the same. You don't expect to get the next one for free. And, other than the banana, you can use this file manager a very long time if you treat your computer well.

Well, computer software and bananas are very different things And I think that actually, yes, people "expect" or know it's a common thing to get free minor upgrades when they buy something.

Don't look at banana, look at other products. Often, minor releases will be free to registered users, and only the next major one will they need to pay for, at a special price of course.

That's why I think the idea of paying for a major version branch is good : it includes all minor releases from that branch. It gets people used to upgrade as the software grows, it keeps them addicted, so when they need to pay some more to keep playing, they do.

(Besides, if one were to buy 6.20 and had to pay, even at a special price, to upgrade, he would probably not get 6.30 but be waiting for 6.70 even 7.0. If he had all 6.x for free, he'd probably still be upgrading to 7.x then, which in the end would mean the same for you)

For example, I think the license/pricing/upgrade policy for EditPad Pro is pretty good, and it seems to be working fine for him.

I'm not sure about the "buy it, and get no support" policy, I'm not sure how people would feel. When buying a software, people usually expect some support, that's a sign of quality too. And your work on that area has always been amazing and the best one can found, so why separating it from your product?

That said, an "extremely cheap" license (like $10) that would only be a right to use this version, no support, no upgrade at special price, nothing but that version to use, could get more users... but (a) maybe some wouldn't "follow" XY's evolution from then on and not upgrade, seeing how this is a very "one-time" deal (no support, upgrades, etc), and (b) would they upgrade to a lifetime if it has no special prize? Unlike new comers they bought a license already, so not having a seal might have them to stick with their old version (unless they really want a new feature that's been added..)


Just seeing graham reply, and I think I kinda like it... but it sounds more like a one-time special deal than a (definitive) change of license policy, right?

jacky wrote: Damn, I'm embarrassed now I really love XY, so I'll have to donate ! Let's all go the zridling way

I think you dont have to embarassed. What you have done with XYwiki is already a great donation. . Personally I too would like to support XY by spending more time on the forums and WIKI, but small donations is what I can do now. What you are doing is great jacky! Thanks for the wiki.

admin wrote:(You should also have a special price to go from registered to lifetime registered, obviously)
--->>> too complex.

I'm sorry but I don't just see how this is "too complex"!

You're obviously great at coding stuff, so having a simple database of registered users by userid with their vers nbr, status (registered vs lifetime) and a total $$ spent/invested that would update when they buy an upgrade, and when the total $ spent, using your nbrs (rounded), $15 for indiv vers exceeds the $50 on the forth time, they would then be converted to the other status and informed via email of this, doesn't seen that difficult!

This would mean that they could either spend $50 up front or $60 over time to get to the same result...cause I'd think a person would be unhappy to have to keep spending $15 numerous times and still not get lifetime, or have to spend an additional $50 to do so...

You could even have it automated so that each time they buy an updated vers, they would be offered lifetime for an additional amt equal to what's remaining to get to the $60 point...so that after they buy the first vers at $15, they'd get email with "buy lifetime now for $45" offer... or even a slight discount, such as $15 + $40, $30 + $25, $45 + $10, so that total paid would still exceed the original $50 amount by $5 or something similar.

Addendum: I agree with the minor updates of 6.xx being included free but 7.xx would require a new purchase, so you'd just have to make new major vers be big enough to make it worthwhile...

(Upd: Added missing word)

j_c_hallgren wrote:Addendum: I agree with the minor updates of 6.xx being included free but 7.xx would require a new purchase, so you'd just have to make new major vers be big enough to make it worthwhile...

Just to add: you don't even need to make new major version any "big", it's worthwhile anyways since by definition the update would go the the whole 7.x branch, therefore including all future (minor) updates to come...

jacky wrote:Just to add: you don't even need to make new major version any "big", it's worthwhile anyways since by definition the update would go the the whole 7.x branch, therefore including all future (minor) updates to come...

Agreed! But for marketing purposes, it would seem to be a good thing to have at least one major change timed to match a change to the 6.x/7.x version and so forth...

j_c_hallgren wrote:

jacky wrote:Just to add: you don't even need to make new major version any "big", it's worthwhile anyways since by definition the update would go the the whole 7.x branch, therefore including all future (minor) updates to come...

Agreed! But for marketing purposes, it would seem to be a good thing to have at least one major change timed to match a change to the 6.x/7.x version and so forth...

Uh I did not get jacky's part and neither jc's answer. What are you talking about?

j_c_hallgren wrote:

admin wrote:(You should also have a special price to go from registered to lifetime registered, obviously)
--->>> too complex.

I'm sorry but I just see how this is "too complex"!

Because I have a fully automated key delivery. And I mean fully! I could go on holiday for the rest of life. All keys are XY keys are delivered within seconds and reliably. (Okay, server downs are always a potential problem -- but this is very rare).
What you suggest will produce trouble in the machinery. People will forget their original user name or use a slightly different one accidentally. Then they will approach me by email asking what's going wrong. I'm working with shareware customers since many years. If the purchase isn't as slick as an oiled hering you end up writing emails all night long. I don't have a department for this.

jacky wrote:For example, I think the license/pricing/upgrade policy for EditPad Pro is pretty good, and it seems to be working fine for him.

What makes you think so? Do you know him?

graham wrote:I would offer a special deal over the next three months for a 6.20 version with no support or updates at an introduction price, say $10. This version would not be time limited. Buyers also get a regular monthly email news update of enhancements made. Purpose, hopefully to increase user base and make users aware of the development change speed, and keep them actively involved so that they upgrade. The news letter is an opportunity to sell special unique features plus recently introduced enhancements and 'did you know XY does this'.

I like it. "Introduction price" is good. Maybe also "Introduction license" (?). I even like the $10. It's a bold statement. I'm curious to see how that would work.

Little downside of this very low price: I can only offer this license via PayPal, because ShareIt's fixed margin is much too high. Almost half of it would go to ShareIt...

j_c_hallgren wrote:You're obviously great at coding stuff, so having a simple database of registered users by userid with their vers nbr, status (registered vs lifetime) and a total $$ spent/invested that would update when they buy an upgrade, and when the total $ spent, using your nbrs (rounded), $15 for indiv vers exceeds the $50 on the forth time, they would then be converted to the other status and informed via email of this, doesn't seen that difficult!

Where is that database? Remember that PayPal and ShareIt must have read access to the data right before giving out the key, and write access right after giving out the key. To the same database. This is practically impossible it seems to me. And I have already a complex software project at hand...

jacky wrote:That said, an "extremely cheap" license (like $10) that would only be a right to use this version, no support, no upgrade at special price, nothing but that version to use, could get more users... but (a) maybe some wouldn't "follow" XY's evolution from then on and not upgrade, seeing how this is a very "one-time" deal (no support, upgrades, etc), and (b) would they upgrade to a lifetime if it has no special prize? Unlike new comers they bought a license already, so not having a seal might have them to stick with their old version (unless they really want a new feature that's been added..)

The latter sentence is the point! The idea is that users have a very low-cost way into the world of XY. They enjoy the full version of a software that costs 50 bucks (lifetime) for just 10 bucks. They start to like it. There could be a menu entry below check-for-updates called "Check for the newest features you don't have". They want the newest feature, too. Maybe they think "Let's wait another 2 weeks and I get even more new features" for 10 bucks, or maybe they think "There will always be new features (or other improvements) that I do not have, unless I buy the lifetime license. Then I have all the fun and no more worries".

jacky wrote:That's why I think the idea of paying for a major version branch is good : it includes all minor releases from that branch.

But it's unfair: It's a very good deal when you happen to start with 6.00 but a very bad one when you start with 6.90.

I mean, these version numbers are just artificial anyway. The only thing relevant is speed and value of development. And in my opinion, XY brings some very interesting new enhancements every 3 to 6 weeks.

BTW, not taking part in the development and just sticking with an old version is a possibility for a lot of users: the last Free-for-non-commercial-use version 4.50.0018 (from 03-Mar-2006!) has still a LOT more downloads that all pay-versions together! Every day... So paying 10$ for a much better version might be an option for some of them...

admin wrote:Little downside of this very low price: I can only offer this license via PayPal, because ShareIt's fixed margin is much too high. Almost half of it would go to ShareIt...

Wow - that's quite a cut! I don't know if you have to do anything special for this, but I've paid via PayPal before without an account, they just take my credit card. I imagine that this may increase thier cut, but I dunno.

You might want to take a look at the new Amazon Payments. I bought my Jungle Disk license using that, and it was no problem on my end, anyway. And to be honest, I get an uneasy feeling with PayPal for some reason (probably not justified) which I did not get with Amazon Payments (since I buy a fair amount of stuff at Amazon anyway):

http://payments.amazon.com/

The Jungle Disk people have some sort of (free) service to let pretty much anyone integrate Amazon Payments:

http://blog.jungledisk.com/2007/08/03/j ... ts-launch/
http://www.junglepayments.com/

mwb1100 wrote:

admin wrote:Little downside of this very low price: I can only offer this license via PayPal, because ShareIt's fixed margin is much too high. Almost half of it would go to ShareIt...

Wow - that's quite a cut! I don't know if you have to do anything special for this, but I've paid via PayPal before without an account, they just take my credit card. I imagine that this may increase thier cut, but I dunno.

You might want to take a look at the new Amazon Payments. I bought my Jungle Disk license using that, and it was no problem on my end, anyway. And to be honest, I get an uneasy feeling with PayPal for some reason (probably not justified) which I did not get with Amazon Payments (since I buy a fair amount of stuff at Amazon anyway):

http://payments.amazon.com/

The Jungle Disk people have some sort of (free) service to let pretty much anyone integrate Amazon Payments:

http://blog.jungledisk.com/2007/08/03/j ... ts-launch/
http://www.junglepayments.com/

You probably misunderstood me (?): PayPal is good for me! Whenever I sell a license via PayPal it's 4 euros more for me than via ShareIt.

ShareIt, OTOH, offers a better service, better key generation support, and a promotion network. So in the end the investment might be justified.

By the way, setting up the automatic key generation with PayPal was not that easy and a very PayPal-specific solution. If I'd go to Amazon Payments or wherever I'd have to do this all over again (if possible at all).

No, I think I'm fine PayPal and ShareIt. My problem is not the purchase process but (lack of) publicity.