XYplorer Beta Club

admin wrote:

lukescammell wrote:How about a "newbie mode" that activates by default and can be turned off with a flag in the ini (or turned on with a flag if that's better for performance...) ?

This would provide more mouse overs or even a little starting tutorial inside XY?

Do you have the impression I'm bored and looking for something to do to kill time?

Yes?

j_c_hallgren wrote:... XY, which is a complex product...

Let me quote the help file, page 1:

XY help file wrote:The program design follows a Keep It Simple philosophy: the interface is kept as plain and intuitive as possible, and does not confront you with an overload of buttons, toolbars, or menus. Since it closely adheres to the look and feel standards known from Explorer, you'll need no time at all to start working, and only a few minutes to get familiarized with the additional features.

I think that is still true and if not I want to make it true! Of course, there are a lot of submenus, and a lot of toolbar buttons you can choose from, but the important point is: you can do all basic and most of the advanced stuff from a very relaxed interface.

Now what is a "newbie"? New to computers, new to advanced file management, new to XYplorer? These are quite different target groups for any newbie-oriented support system.

Just thoughts... back to CKS.

Sorry about this long post. I keep trying to shorten myself...but I just have had no luck lately. I have written so many attempts on this topic and trashed them all because they were sooo long and dumb. I am finally just going to give up and send this now... Again, sorry I can't seem to be brief lately.


I am not yet sure about if XY was ready for me to use immediately. I will think about that more later. I can't remember right now.


'New to this program' is what I am calling a Newbie

Some folks, perhaps, will have experience with other, less Zen-like management programs but they are still going to head to Newb Corner for answers, I bet. (If we have one.)

Nobody is too excited about Newbie Corner but me, eh? Well, can I still try to make a case for having one? I can't give up quite yet. I think it would be more on the plus side than on the negative side. (But, don't get me wrong: No offense taken. I don't really care all that much. I'm not MARRIED to the Newb Corner Idea. I will give up after this.)

Newbie Corner - <linking> will help, won't it? So what if same questions are asked over and over? GOOD! Shows what a newb first is confused by. Encourages new buyers to have a place to ask embarrassing questions and feel at home amongst other newbs. Basically, it says: it's ok to be anxious to get to USING XY right away and u just need some quicky answers...maybe you haven't a clue WHERE to go look up the answers. Let us help (or point you to place where that discussion has been discussed <thread> -- or is illustrated <main webpage>-- or is explained <Help or Wiki). Would be awesome if in Newbie Corner we could build threads about each topic. <I think..but what do I know? I am still so new here>

Newbie Corner use also: New folks come HERE first! This is your spot to get first answers! Ask questions or just chat, e.g., What are your computer uses? What do you want from this program? How much do you like the color choices aspect of XY? How long you been computering? Whatever folks, all folks, feel like telling and asking. Just comfortable area for new folks to first come to - and old-timers, too. A place for ALL but focusing on new users and new prospective users.

Might be good for prospective buyers to see Newb Corner...they could also learn USES of XY. AHA moments. Now, after seeing some of these ideas and uses, they MUST have this product or life isn't complete!!! Maybe THEY will want to Ask PRE-PURCHASE questions in Newb Corner.

So what if same questions?? We nicely point <link> to thread of similar questions and answers. "Welcome Janie. Check out this thread <link> where others have asked about that same issue. Something there might help." (And then, hopefully, that thread will be the place the subject is mostly talked about. Will make a great reference someday... place to find chat about one topic...all grouped together.)

I see we already have some really wonderful helpers like Wiki. Why not offer links to specific sections of Wiki? (I have read thru Wiki several times now..maybe Wiki helps folks who have been at it a week or so? I feel much more empowered to go there and actually UNDERSTAND much of it now.)

And like:
http://www.xyplorer.com/shots_preview.htm
http://www.xyplorer.com/shots_latest.htm
http://www.xyplorer.com/shots_findfiles.htm
http://www.xyplorer.com/shots.htm

Why not link to some of those above? (Who did those up? They have helped me. Love em. MORE of those...more details in the text that accompanies them -- lovely stuff. A couple of them I didn't understand.)

Ya, terminology. Glossary. That sounds good.

And maybe we could just take those photos above and work up more similar quality screenshots and beginner-speak text accompanying them. Then, we could make more use of LINKS to them. Love pictures!


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My history with some non-file management software:
I've been using one commerical program for 11 years and have helped make a software utility program for it and write the instructions and help users of both programs. Our homemade manuals and the commercial manuals, no matter how wonderful...seem to be **invisible** to new buyers!!

Maybe it's human nature to want quick answers or to have living people's hands to hold while learning? Maybe they don't know WHERE to look when they are trembling with excitement and desire to get ON using the new program??

Our findings: new users want to ask questions/qet quick answers rather than read. And heck, they are paying customers who expect answers. If they don't get them right away, often, they will write OWNER with basic questions -- tying up HIS time. We still point, but generally just answer on our support forum and have given up expecting them to read, read, read. It's beating head on wall to expect them to read at first, especially.

I have seen that if people get discouraged by not understanding how to use their new program, i.e., don't get easy answers, they sometimes abandon the software. Some even bad-mouth it. (Often totally misunderstanding it's uses and mis-informing others about it.) Bad advertising for great product. Discouraging. So, to me, anything we can do to GET PEOPLE HAPPILY USING is a plus all the way around.

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Ya.... the words..they blur when you haven't a clue about the terminology. Maybe a "New to This Type of Software?" section in the sales literature sections and in Help and in Wiki??

You guys are fun to be with. (and nice.) I am still so excited about this program. WHY would one NOT want it (??), I keep asking myself.

Maybe:

New User (and Pre-Purchase User) Corner

?

Maybe I'm a bit dense...or too techie....or something else
But I don't see why this T&T,Q&A sub-forum doesn't already or wouldn't handle all of those topics...

I can see creating a handful or so "sticky" posts that might be used to collect various Q&A more tailored to a new/potential user..which might help keep duplicate new threads under control...we might be able to collect a number of existing threads and start by creating better descriptors that point to them in these sticky's, as some thread titles are lousy!

This, combined with a subsection of wiki that we (with Brenda's help) might tailor more to a new user could be easily worth a try...without a lot of redundant efforts...

In a glossary, I'd like to maybe not only describe the meaning of term, but in many cases, have a small JPG showing where the term/item is seen/used...a pic-tionary! This could also help, I think as finding a good accurate text can be sometimes quite difficult.

JC wrote: <<with a subsection of wiki that we (with Brenda's help) might tailor more to a new user>>

Did I say I'd help?

<<Maybe I'm a bit dense...or too techie....or something else
But I don't see why this T&T,Q&A sub-forum doesn't already or wouldn't handle all of those topics... >>

I believe it is *me* who is dense, not you... and I am in the midst of a whirlwind mentally (please forgive if I go on like a dizzy drunk)...so many new concepts, much excitement, much to read/learn...and also a house that has come apart, projects near deadlines, etc..... like most of us, I bet. BUT,

Why not? What's the harm in having sections of forum focused on new and prospective buyer/users?

Here is one plus:

When using Search. A new person comes along, wants non-tech, quick- find assistance in lingo he understands.

Narrow search to

Search New User section

the found threads might save him reading thru tons of words that are technical... like you guys discussing technical stuff, or how to write Wiki, etc.

Narrows the search...and possible saves eyesight and time.

That's one reason maybe why sectioning forum a bit more might assist people.

I like the stuff u mentioned, JC. Sounds good to me. PS: I will help if I can ... I am too new to be much assist though. (I will be gone much May thru Oct. Retired and we RV during warm months...in and out lots.)

Okay, I see all those epic posts... looks like good entertainment... I promise I actually read them after the release of 6.0.

BTW, the next big feature after CKS will be UNDO! If that's not a newbie trap then I don't know what!

LOL epic posts. I am so sorry. I don't know what my problem is lately.
Excited, I think it must be. Love XY.

UNDO??? OH YES. GOOD! I ran into problems and kept looking around for UNDO. Somehow, I wiped out 3/4 of my desktop stuff (not hard drive..no, not that bad) with some MOVE action I acidentally caused. UNDO... Yes!!! We need undo. Especially us newb random button pushers. Work, Don, work. I will go do housework and try not to think about XY for a bit.

badams007 wrote:Here is one plus:
When using Search. A new person comes along, wants non-tech, quick- find assistance in lingo he understands.
Narrow search to Search New User section
the found threads might save him reading thru tons of words that are technical... like you guys discussing technical stuff, or how to write Wiki, etc.
Narrows the search...and possible saves eyesight and time.

Given that phpBB forum search is not the ideal, but workable, I think part of this can be handled by attempting to have newbies identify their threads as such, so while a search limited to "T&T,Q&A" could/would return other threads, user could then look at those threads tagged that way...

My hestitation in having a separate new user sub-forum is that on other forums where I've seen it, many threads end up as either redundant and/or with vague topics like "help me"...while that can and does occur here, it seems to be a lot less less prevalent...not sure exactly why though...
maybe users get the idea to use a better topic to "fit in" or look around first?

And Brenda, just because you're RV'ing doesn't mean you can't show up here often! I've heard that many RV parks have wi-fi, so you can get your daily dose of XY forums...a day without it is like a day without sunshine, IMO!

j_c_hallgren wrote:And Brenda, just because you're RV'ing doesn't mean you can't show up here often! I've heard that many RV parks have wi-fi, so you can get your daily dose of XY forums...a day without it is like a day without sunshine, IMO!

What's RV???

admin wrote: What's RV???

RV = Recreational Vehicle
It can be anything from a camping trailer or van based camper to a bus sized coach that is almost like a home...a friend has one that is 32 feet long and spends weeks traveling thru the U.S. each summer...when I was last in Sweden, I don't think I ever saw one of the bus type, so maybe it's not a European thing...they can cost up to a half-million dollars, as I understand it...

j_c_hallgren wrote:

admin wrote: What's RV???

RV = Recreational Vehicle
It can be anything from a camping trailer or van based camper to a bus sized coach that is almost like a home...a friend has one that is 32 feet long and spends weeks traveling thru the U.S. each summer...when I was last in Sweden, I don't think I ever saw one of the bus type, so maybe it's not a European thing...they can cost up to a half-million dollars, as I understand it...

They are forbidden in Europe to protect the climate.

My hestitation in having a separate new user sub-forum is that on other forums where I've seen it, many threads end up as either redundant and/or with vague topics like "help me"...while that can and does occur here, it seems to be a lot less less prevalent...not sure exactly why though...maybe users get the idea to use a better topic to "fit in" or look around first?

What matter that they title "help me" over and over? (I've seen that, too.) The Search goes beyong Subject and down into the text of the post, doesn't it? Newbie Cornier would have lots of vague subject titles, yep.

On the other hand, many folks using this kind of software might be more specific in their headers [because they are more experienced computer people probably]. Are headers within a newb area all that important? [if so, could they be edited?]

You just HATE newbie corner idea and that's that! All you guys. <sobbing> Ok, I give up. <sides, it isn't all that much an improvement, perhaps...hehe>

PS: my mother-in-law's RV is on VW bus chasis. Mine is Ford van type (cab over)...Winnebago 29 foot. Some RV's are diesel, too. USA and Canada lots of travel by RV, even up to Alaska & down to Mexico. There are many RV rental's, too, in vacation areas.

badams007 wrote:You just HATE newbie corner idea and that's that! All you guys. <sobbing> Ok, I give up.

No...I think that's way TOO strong a word (HATE)...I would say "not prefer" for myself...I think it's that we'd maybe like to try some other ideas first...that's my guess, but I may be wrong...

And don't give up that easily! Sometimes we can be a bit stubborn, but even Don has been convinced to try out some ideas that he'd originally said never to....

An improved/simplified "Newbie FAQ" in the wiki would do the trick I reckon. We just need to know what questions need answering