XYplorer Beta Club

Works like charm, I have replaced all my standard robocopy jobs.

I declare XYplorer is finished!

Don, I'm really curious what YOU would love to do next.

But what about this idea: instead of a Preview checkbox I add a Preview button!

Now with 18.30.0007 there is a Preview button - but when I close the preview the whole operation aborts. I was hoping for a scheme in which choosing to look at a preview wouldn't affect anything.

This is really cool so far. Thanks for the hard work that obviously went into this!

I do have some UX comments, though. If a user wants to carefully run sync (previewing the upcoming actions, as in other sync apps), the current implementation requires the user to:

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1. Trigger "Sync Folders..." via menu, button or hotkey combination
2. Click a Preview button.
3. Look at a new "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window which isn't particularly informative/useful.
4. Click a Reports button and click to select the type of report to be viewed.
5. Click to close the report(s).
6. Click to close the "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window.
7. Trigger "Sync Folders..." via menu, button or hotkey combination again.
8. Click "Start."
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The issue I have with this is that 8 manual steps (with 8 clicks or keyboard triggers) is a lot of steps to take just to do cautious syncing.

I believe, from what I'm seeing, that the PREVIEW really just borrows from the actual sync code and runs a simulation without actually performing any file operations. Thus, it was probably a lot easier/quicker to implement things this way from a coding standpoint. You have two different routines based on the same code - one which doesn't do file operations, and one which does. But then the user has to take a lot of UX steps as a result of the coding convenience. And if a user is making changes to checkbox settings in the Sync Folders window and testing to see the results, it's a lot of work to go back and forth, see the new reports, and remember what the user did.

If a user wants to use the Preview feature at all, then by nature that user will likely almost always want to use the Preview feature when syncing. So here is what I would suggest:

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1. Add the "Reports "button to the current "Sync Folders" window. It would be greyed out until "Preview" is clicked. (If that's not possible, then perhaps it could appear only once "Preview" is clicked?)
2. The user could click "Preview" and no additional window would open. Instead, an indicator would appear that "Sync preview is processing," and the "Sync Folders" check boxes and operations buttons would be greyed out during that time. A "Cancel" button would appear to allow the user to cancel Preview.
3. Once the Sync Preview simulation completes, the Sync Folders check boxes and operations buttons would become active (no longer greyed out). The user could click the "Reports" button to view reports.
4. Once satisfied, the user could click "Start" to run the actual sync.

This would save three UX steps.
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And even better, building on the above:

1. Allow the user to set an option for the Sync feature: "Always preview sync results before performing file operations" preferably in the Sync Folders window itself, or alternatively in Configuration. From then on, when the user triggers "Sync Folders...," the main Sync Folders window will appear and will immediately indicate that "Sync preview is processing." The sync simulation will happen in the background at this time, and while it runs, Sync Folders check boxes and operations buttons will be greyed out. A "Cancel" button would appear to allow the user to cancel Preview; in this case, if it's clicked, the background Sync Preview would stop and the Sync Folders check boxes and operations buttons would immediately become active (no longer greyed out).
2. Once the background Sync Preview simulation completes, the Sync Folders check boxes and operations buttons become active (no longer greyed out). The user would be able to click "Reports" to immediately view reports.
3. Once satisfied, the user could click "Start" to run the actual sync.

This would save an additional UX step, bringing the number of steps required for a busy (yet cautious) user to sync folders down to just 4:

1. Trigger "Sync Folders..." via menu, button or hotkey combination
2. Click a Reports button and click to select the type of report to be viewed.
3. Click to close the report(s).
4. Click "Start."
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Also, since I'm being picky -- I'd like to have a main Sync Folders "Report viewer" window where I can navigate back and forth between the different reports, rather than having to manually open each report in an individual window.

Thanks again for all you've already done to make this an excellent feature.

Thoughts?

xyplorerköln wrote:3. Look at a new "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window which isn't particularly informative/useful.

Really? There's all the data you need (unless you want to visually scan vertical miles of text lines).

Papoulka wrote:

But what about this idea: instead of a Preview checkbox I add a Preview button!

Now with 18.30.0007 there is a Preview button - but when I close the preview the whole operation aborts. I was hoping for a scheme in which choosing to look at a preview wouldn't affect anything.

Well, the architecture does not allow this.

admin wrote:

xyplorerköln wrote:3. Look at a new "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window which isn't particularly informative/useful.

Really? There's all the data you need (unless you want to visually scan vertical miles of text lines).

Well, for me anyway, I generally like to look at the specific odds 'n ends files that might need to be manually taken care of before actually running the sync. In other words, there's nothing actionable (nothing I can learn from to act upon) in the "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window. I have to look at the reports to see which files might be overwritten, deleted, etc. if I want to do something about them prior to actually syncing. Make sense?

I have just tried the new sync. Where I was in XY, I clicked on the Sync Folders, then selected Preview not to mess up anything. I got a strange message, about "a unknown operation" initiated, title of the window: "Unknown 4 items now?". I said ok in spite of the weird question. Then: "[PREVIEW] Delete 4 808 items now?" Nonono - I said, so clicked cancel. PREVIEW Sync Folder failed. I wanted a report. I got error 9. So at this point I realized that this function is still under hard development, so I am going to wait patiently.

LittleBiG wrote:I have just tried the new sync. Where I was in XY, I clicked on the Sync Folders, then selected Preview not to mess up anything. I got a strange message, about "a unknown operation" initiated, title of the window: "Unknown 4 items now?". I said ok in spite of the weird question. Then: "[PREVIEW] Delete 4 808 items now?" Nonono - I said, so clicked cancel. PREVIEW Sync Folder failed. I wanted a report. I got error 9. So at this point I realized that this function is still under hard development, so I am going to wait patiently.

Was that a background operation?
Does it happen always?
Was that the recent beta version (v18.30.0008)?

xyplorerköln wrote:

admin wrote:

xyplorerköln wrote:3. Look at a new "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window which isn't particularly informative/useful.

Really? There's all the data you need (unless you want to visually scan vertical miles of text lines).

Well, for me anyway, I generally like to look at the specific odds 'n ends files that might need to be manually taken care of before actually running the sync. In other words, there's nothing actionable (nothing I can learn from to act upon) in the "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window. I have to look at the reports to see which files might be overwritten, deleted, etc. if I want to do something about them prior to actually syncing. Make sense?

Hmm, if you have time to visually scan a list to look at the specific odds 'n ends why so greedy about a few clicks?

admin wrote:

LittleBiG wrote:I have just tried the new sync. Where I was in XY, I clicked on the Sync Folders, then selected Preview not to mess up anything. I got a strange message, about "a unknown operation" initiated, title of the window: "Unknown 4 items now?". I said ok in spite of the weird question. Then: "[PREVIEW] Delete 4 808 items now?" Nonono - I said, so clicked cancel. PREVIEW Sync Folder failed. I wanted a report. I got error 9. So at this point I realized that this function is still under hard development, so I am going to wait patiently.

Was that a background operation?
Does it happen always?
Was that the recent beta version (v18.30.0008)?

"Background processing" and "Confirm copy and move" are on.
Without exception.
Of course.

OK, got it, thanks!

admin wrote:

xyplorerköln wrote:

admin wrote:

xyplorerköln wrote:3. Look at a new "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window which isn't particularly informative/useful.

Really? There's all the data you need (unless you want to visually scan vertical miles of text lines).

Well, for me anyway, I generally like to look at the specific odds 'n ends files that might need to be manually taken care of before actually running the sync. In other words, there's nothing actionable (nothing I can learn from to act upon) in the "[PREVIEW] Sync Folders Completed" window. I have to look at the reports to see which files might be overwritten, deleted, etc. if I want to do something about them prior to actually syncing. Make sense?

Hmm, if you have time to visually scan a list to look at the specific odds 'n ends why so greedy about a few clicks?

The issue is about workflow.

When I'm needing to work quickly with tons of client files and sync in the manner that XYplorer now provides, I need to be able to quickly, efficiently (1) preview sync changes between two locations, (2) make small manual modifications (to avoid overwrite/deletion of certain files that need to remain, etc., since your tool doesn't yet have the more complicated controls/rules of dedicated sync programs), (3) preview again, and (4) sync.

The problem is that if I have a ton of manual clicks and opening/closing/reopening/reclosing/reopening/reclosing/click/click/click/click/wherewasI???!!! operations, it doesn't allow me to work quickly, efficiently, or accurately. Those "few clicks" can quickly multiply to hundreds of clicks in a workday, with the related distractions they cause potentially introducing errors. I just need the sync process to be as simple and efficient as possible.

admin wrote:

Papoulka wrote:

But what about this idea: instead of a Preview checkbox I add a Preview button!

Now with 18.30.0007 there is a Preview button - but when I close the preview the whole operation aborts. I was hoping for a scheme in which choosing to look at a preview wouldn't affect anything.

Well, the architecture does not allow this.

To the tune of "I Want it That Way" as performed by the Backstreet Boys: http://tinyurl.com/ydb79uoh

Tell me why-e!
Ain't nothin' but a heartache
Tell my why-e!
Ain't nothing but a big mistake
Tell my why-e!
I really didn't mean to code this way.
Time... to... reeeee-fac-tor!

Just jivin' with you a little...

xyplorerköln: Looks like your needs are special enough to suggest a scripting solution. I think SC sync has all the power you need. Are you acquainted with scripting?

admin wrote:xyplorerköln: Looks like your needs are special enough to suggest a scripting solution. I think SC sync has all the power you need. Are you acquainted with scripting?

I probably could script a solution.

Not to get at odds with you (after all, I'm a huge fan of your work!) - but wouldn't you tend to agree that simplification of the UX is generally a primary goal?

I suppose what I mean is: What I'm asking isn't really, in my view, a corner case. If I'm a busy worker in a place where files need to be synced manually like this, then I need (a) a quick way to sync with the least steps/hassle possible, and (b) a way to be cautious so I don't accidentally overwrite or delete someone else's work.

In your current iteration, it's a lot of work to achieve this. That's why I provided the recommendations I did: I believe that simplification of the steps would allow the widest range of users to easily use the sync tool.

Let's put this into a different light: Let's say your average user comes along and says, "Oh, cool - a sync tool. Let me preview. OK, looks good. Wait - the window closed. I have to open Sync again?" That's not good.

Then: "Well, it's telling me that 5 files will be deleted. But which 5 files? I need to make sure Gretchen's files don't get deleted. OK, so I need to open this report manually. Great, I see the files I need to change. Done - I changed them. Oh, but now I need to close the Preview window... so I can run Preview again... so I can close the window again... so I can open Sync again and run it finally."

I hope you can see my point. Even for the most basic (but cautious) user, the current workflow is tedious and prone to eliciting accidents through distraction and too many required clicks.