Multiple Toolbars and Items Grouping

[IneedHelp]

Hello!

When will multiple tool-bars on multiple rows support be added and, also, when will grouping list items be available?

[nas8e9]

Hello!

When will multiple tool-bars on multiple rows support be added and, also, when will grouping list items be available?

Hi and welcome,

For a rough idea of what's currently planned, you have discovered the roadmap? I don't think the items you mention are on there, though. Of the two, the grouping list items, sounds interesting to me.

P.S. No relation to a forum member of a competitor that shall remain nameless?

[admin]

Actually I'm considering a 2nd toolbar (mainly because I'm running out of button space myself ). In the (coming/Win8) era of touchscreens/tablets toolbars are THE interface IMO.

[IneedHelp]

For a rough idea of what's currently planned, you have discovered the roadmap?

Yes, I did glance through it, but I thought I should ask anyway. I suppose that the roadmap is dynamic and priorities can be changed at any time.

I don't think the items you mention are on there, though. Of the two, the grouping list items, sounds interesting to me.

Surprisingly enough, they aren't even under the to-do list. How does Donald expect users to efficiently manage dozens and dozens of buttons on a single toolbar (on a single row) is a bit beyond my reach. Also, when you develop an application which is meant to replace the host file manager, you at least offer everything the native file manager has to offer, grouping items included. I mean I rarely find myself managing files outside the grouped details mode.

Don't you people (XYplorer users) find grouping items an important feature to begin with? When I moved from XP to Windows 7, the messed up item grouping mode was the first thing that made me go look for a different file manager.
vs
Windows 7's Windows Explorer grouping vs. Shall Remain Nameless' grouping.
The only good aspects of W7 WE's grouping is the ability to collapse/expand groups and the group items number being displayed next to the group name.

P.S. No relation to a forum member of a competitor that shall remain nameless? :wink:

Does it make any difference?

[IneedHelp]

Actually I'm considering a 2nd toolbar (mainly because I'm running out of button space myself :mrgreen: ). In the (coming/Win8) era of touchscreens/tablets toolbars are THE interface IMO.

Just a 2nd toolbar? How about a dozen or so? It's funny because I'm waiting for the other file manager's developer to remove the 16 toolbars limit. How can one organize buttons (for user commands, bookmarks and whatnot) with just a couple toolbars?

[eil]

i'd wish to see your manager will all 16+ toolbars filled
by the way, always was interested what people place at those toolbars that they always "have so little space"(well, i was guessing that probably most are just placing all of the default buttons + all the programs they have installed )

[admin]

i'd wish to see your manager will all 16+ toolbars filled
by the way, always was interested what people place at those toolbars that they always "have so little space"(well, i was guessing that probably most are just placing all of the default buttons + all the programs they have installed )

Here's a shocking image that was posted on the BDJ promotion page today:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2607 ... d05h19.png
I'm still recovering from the nasty view...

[IneedHelp]

i'd wish to see your manager will all 16+ toolbars filled :lol:

Done:

But it's still work in progress. I'll have more refined taskbars by the end of the month.

by the way, always was interested what people place at those toolbars that they always "have so little space"(well, i was guessing that probably most are just placing all of the default buttons + all the programs they have installed :mrgreen: )

Common commands, Bookmarks, Applications (which I either use to open single or multiple files with, or for special purposes), Custom Scripts and several other types of buttons.

[admin]

Frankly, to me this screenshot looks more like a problem than a solution, but to each his own.

It's not the way XY is heading to, that's for pretty sure.

[IneedHelp]

Frankly, to me this screenshot looks more like a problem than a solution, but to each his own. :)

I tend to brush my teeth with one hand while being productive with my other had (file management included) :D

It's not the way XY is heading to, that's for pretty sure.

Frankly, I do not understand what you mean. Are you not giving users the ability to use 10-20-50 toolbars to protect them from themselves, or what?
I could as well hide all toolbars, and leave just the address and drives bar- would that make a difference to you?

[admin]

It's not the way XY is heading to, that's for pretty sure.

Frankly, I do not understand what you mean. Are you not giving users the ability to use 10-20-50 toolbars to protect them from themselves, or what?
I could as well hide all toolbars, and leave just the address and drives bar- would that make a difference to you?

Actually yes! Limiting the user is part of my design. Options are double–edged swords (empowering and burdening), and I offer or limit them quite consciously. XYplorer is not a collection of popular features but an integrated tool. At least that's my design goal. The reality is naturally a bit dirtier.

[IneedHelp]

Actually yes! Limiting the user is part of my design.

Well, as a user, I believe that's the worst decision a developer could make, especially in the given context where a feature already exists (the toolbar). Nobody's stopping any user from using just a single toolbar, why would you, as a developer, deny users the ability to have multiple toolbars? It's basically the same feature, the only difference is the number of instances.

Following your principle, the number of available buttons would then have to be reduced to just a couple dozens or less just so the user doesn't get confused. And maybe even limit the number of concurrent tabs to 3 or 4.

You said earlier that:

Actually I'm considering a 2nd toolbar (mainly because I'm running out of button space myself).

Which is a bit confusing, because you are supposed to develop the product according to user needs and requests, not exclusively to your own in this or any other regard. You're running out of space on the one and only toolbar so you're deciding to add a 2nd toolbar... now what should users like me do? Wait untill your run out of space on the 2nd toolbar so you can add a 3rd toolbar?

I mean no disrespect and no ill-intention. I wish to use your manager as well as xplorer2, and while I'm at it, I thought it would be better to have them both improved and not just settle with the thought that they complement each other.

[TheQwerty]

“You can’t just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they’ll want something new.”

“It comes from saying no to 1,000 things to make sure we don’t get on the wrong track or try to do too much.”

“It’s really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don’t know what they want until you show it to them.”

Say what you will but Steve Jobs was CEO of a pretty darn successful company which made quite the habit of not implementing each and every thing the user demands.


Frankly, I've always found that developers do their best work when it's on the things they use frequently. Otherwise, they lose passion and breed hatred for the user.

[IneedHelp]

Say what you will but Steve Jobs was CEO of a pretty darn successful company which made quite the habit of not implementing each and every thing the user demands.

Yeah, well I never owned any iDevice in my life- does that say anything about me? It probably doesn't, but leaves a lot of room for speculation.

Thing is we're talking about a file manager which is supposed to be used instead of the native file manager, not some toy for mindless people that have fun with iSnort and that kind of applications.

Because the offer is so diverse, people simply prefer not to use this file manager and orient to a different one which suits most of their needs. Not everybody bothers to reason with multiple developers when they can reason with just one, and not many wish to use 2 or more file managers, just because one has what the other doesn't. If you go to the xplorer2 forum, you'll notice that a lot of users rely their work-flow on toolbars and their potential. The only reason multiple toolbars aren't so popular here is because whoever wants multiple toolbars just choses the manager which offers them.

And once again, I'm not asking for something new, it's not a NEW feature. ONE toolbar already exists! Once you make the 2nd available, what stops you giving the option to have a dozen toolbars or a hundred? It's not like the user is forced to display all of them, so where's the problem?

[PeterH]

It's not the way XY is heading to, that's for pretty sure.

Frankly, I do not understand what you mean. Are you not giving users the ability to use 10-20-50 toolbars to protect them from themselves, or what?
I could as well hide all toolbars, and leave just the address and drives bar- would that make a difference to you?

Actually yes! Limiting the user is part of my design. Options are double–edged swords (empowering and burdening), and I offer or limit them quite consciously. XYplorer is not a collection of popular features but an integrated tool. At least that's my design goal. The reality is naturally a bit dirtier.

I understand limiting functions of a program a bit - if it's for not blowing up the default interface, for example the number of menu entries, as this is something everybody has to deal with, if he needs those functions or not.

I do not see reason for such a limit for the number of toolbars. The ability of using 25 is no problem for you if you just want to use 2.
But if I'd prefer to use my screen in portrait orientation I'd have to use more lines of toolbars in order to have as many place as you do.

So I see no reason in limiting
- the size of XY-screen (thanks God you didn't do that till now)
- the number of toolbars (at least as long as a variable number is allowed)
- the number of trees (one for all or one for each pane)
- the number of panes (imagine 2 more panes "in the background", especially for use in scripting, without interference to the "user"-panes)

Sorry: my kind of view. Though a bit provocatice