Partial (or implicit partial) Tree-Refresh

[Creat]

Hello again,

maybe this is already possible and I just missed it somehow or just don't know the keyboard shortcut.
Would it be possible to allow a partial tree refresh? Maybe as an implicit part of F5? What I mean by partial is to only refresh the currently selected (and thereby in the list displayed) folder in the tree (i.e. update the list of subfolders for it). Often when I move/copy folders around the tree doesn't get updated, and an F4 takes at least 5 seconds - usualy more - since I always have at least 1 network drive present.
An alternative for me would be an option to exclude the network locations from the F4-action unless it's currently selected.

Anyway, I know this is probably really close to the bottom on your list of things to do (if it makes it on that list at all), so I won't hold my breath. Still would be really nice

Thanx,
Creat

[jacky]

hmm usually XY is quite good as auto-refreshing things on itw own, if you do have the autorefresh on (Configuration/Advanced/Autorefresh on file system changes; and unless you add "Include network locations" it's only local stuff )

And I think View/Refresh Folder can do what you want, but it doesn't have a shortcuts AFAIK

[Creat]

Of course auto-refresh is on, but for local folders only since working on network drives gets pretty slow with it turned on.

Unfortunately, I don't have an example ready for when things go "out of sync" in the tree, if I come across one I'll post it here

[admin]

Creat, you have seen View/Refresh Folder, don't you?

[Statler]

Creat, you have seen View/Refresh Folder, don't you?

What about a keyboard shortcut and a toolbar icon for that?

[admin]

Creat, you have seen View/Refresh Folder, don't you?

What about a keyboard shortcut and a toolbar icon for that?

Yes: Ctrl+Shift+F4 looks very natural for it. However it is currently assigned to "Show Tree". I will change that unless I get 10 vetoes from 10 independent users within the next 30 minutes.

[admin]

Often when I move/copy folders around the tree doesn't get updated, and an F4 takes at least 5 seconds - usualy more - since I always have at least 1 network drive present.

Which raises the idea: if currently in the local tree, let F4 refresh the local tree, if currently in the network tree, let F4 refresh the network tree! good?!

[Creat]

Creat, you have seen View/Refresh Folder, don't you?

actually I hadn't
I did hit alot of keys thuogh trying to find a "hidden" feature
(using the menu would probably not be faster than waiting for F4 anway)

Often when I move/copy folders around the tree doesn't get updated, and an F4 takes at least 5 seconds - usualy more - since I always have at least 1 network drive present.

Which raises the idea: if currently in the local tree, let F4 refresh the local tree, if currently in the network tree, let F4 refresh the network tree! good?!

Lovely! That would be wonderful (and it is what I meant by "An alternative for me would be an option to exclude the network locations from the F4-action unless it's currently selected.", though I know that I'm just terrible at explaining stuff)

Oh wait, I'm not sure if there's a reason to not refresh the local tree even if in a network location, it shuold be fast enough not to be noticeable anyway

and thanx for the quick reply - as usual
Creat

[admin]

...
Oh wait, I'm not sure if there's a reason to not refresh the local tree even if in a network location, it shuold be fast enough not to be noticeable anyway

I should look into the code before having "new" ideas -- it's already done almost exactly like you suggest at the bottom above!
F4 on local: refresh local tree only.
F4 on network path: refresh local tree and this current network path (not even the whole network).

Now why the big speed difference to Refresh Folder? It must be because one other thing is done on F4: refresh local shares, i.e. paths like C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents, the ones with the hand overlay! Takes some time on larger trees. Maybe I shouldn't do this at all on F4 but give it its own menu command?

EDIT: or are you using Icon overlays?? Refreshing these is another unspeedy thing done on F4...

[Creat]

Now why the big speed difference to Refresh Folder? It must be because one other thing is done on F4: refresh local shares, i.e. paths like C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents, the ones with the hand overlay! Takes some time on larger trees. Maybe I shouldn't do this at all on F4 but give it its own menu command?

EDIT: or are you using Icon overlays?? Refreshing these is another unspeedy thing done on F4...

Well... I'm not sure what you mean by "refresh local shares". Do you mean things like "My Documents" that are sort of virtual locations pointing to somewhere else on the harddrive? If that's the case: I never expand the "My Documents" entry below the desktop and the folder also isn't that big (10 folders, a few files, less that 50 MB in total [including subfolders]).
If you mean local shares like sharing something and mapping a drive to it on the same machine (now that I read your text again that seems more likely ): don't have that either.

Ok I've been playing around a bit and here are some fun facts with which I've come up:

If I disconnect my network-drive, most refreshes are quick. The slowest factor seems to be the floppy drive, that apparently gets checked everytime F4 get hit. If the last check was just seconds ago, that goes faster on account on not having to spin up I suppose. I'd say floopys are another nice case of "only refresh if selected" like network drives
I don't use overlay-icons (not that I know of, anyway) unless thost "hands", that appear on a shared drive/folder, count as such.
There is no difference in how long a refresh takes with my network drive mapped between having a local folder selected and having one from the network drive selected, suggesting the network drive gets refreshed in both cases.

Do you mean by "local tree" true local stuff or do you cound any drives (i.e. including network drives) as local? That would explain it...
I never use the network places! If I need a network location not mapped to a local drive letter I use UNC-Paths (\\server\share\folder) directly, mostly from Start->Run since XYplorer still doesn't handle them verry well imho (sorry ). Administrative shares don't work for example, and the network neighborhoods gets expanded (which can be painfully slow if you only do it verry occasionally like me). I never used them in explorer either, by the way, always as seperate windows

bye
Creat

[admin]

Do you use floppies? If not: hide the drive! (Configuration/General) Floppy takes about 1 second on my machine to refresh even if the drive is empty.

Configuration/Advanced: uncheck "Show icon overlays" if you don't need them!

BTW: Local shares are folders with a "hand" icon overlay. Confusingly this has nothing to do with "Show icon overlays".

Do you mean by "local tree" true local stuff or do you cound any drives (i.e. including network drives) as local? That would explain it...

Indeed, mapped drives are scanned on a F4 refresh so it's not true local stuff. But if I'd exclude them from tree refresh, it would be confusing. Anyway, yes, it might explain your delay...

I never use the network places! If I need a network location not mapped to a local drive letter I use UNC-Paths (\\server\share\folder) directly, mostly from Start->Run since XYplorer still doesn't handle them verry well imho (sorry ). Administrative shares don't work for example, and the network neighborhoods gets expanded (which can be painfully slow if you only do it verry occasionally like me). I never used them in explorer either, by the way, always as seperate windows

Yeah, Explorer via Start->Run allows you to browse a folder bypassing the tree, nice because very fast! I originally planned this behavior for the Catalog, but you folks did not like it!

How would you envision a good handling of UNC-Paths then? What could/should be improved?

[Creat]

Do you use floppies? If not: hide the drive! (Configuration/General) Floppy takes about 1 second on my machine to refresh even if the drive is empty.

done, who needs those anyways besides for installing windows on RAID or SCSI systems

Configuration/Advanced: uncheck "Show icon overlays" if you don't need them!

turns our they already are off

Indeed, mapped drives are scanned on a F4 refresh so it's not true local stuff. But if I'd exclude them from tree refresh, it would be confusing. Anyway, yes, it might explain your delay...

Yea I though it might be, that's deffinitely it though. Got a tiny bit better after hiding the floppy drive, not by much though. Well guess I'll have to live with it, it also doesn't happen that often so it's not that big a deal (at least I tried ).

Yeah, Explorer via Start->Run allows you to browse a folder bypassing the tree, nice because very fast! I originally planned this behavior for the Catalog, but you folks did not like it!

The fast part is why I use it. I know where I want to go, so I don't need any lists of servers and/or shares. It's just nicely efficient

How would you envision a good handling of UNC-Paths then? What could/should be improved?

I have actually thought about that quite a bit already, haven't come up with a good answer yet. Everything I think of has some drawbacks.

One possibility would be this: If I type a UNC path in the adress bar, add that path (or at least the share portion) below "my network places" on the same level. Don't save them, discard on exit (or on a rightclick action if a user desires to "clean them up" by hand for some reason).

Another one: Have one (fixed) entry somewhere called "UNC Path" or something, and whenever one is entered in the addressbar that item is selected in the tree. Much like the "Search results" explorer uses I think.

Both have obvious flaws (I don't need to enumerate them here, sure you can figure them out faster that it would take me to type them up). Maybe someone else has a good idea about this?

who knows, hope this helps you get a better idea of how to do it.
Creat

[admin]

I just experimentally added "treeless browsing", and of course it is UNBELIEVABLY fast, be it local or network. You wouldn't trust your eyes. Unfortunately it is for my eyes only for the time being because it needs some thorough revising of a lot of code...
I guess I put it on my list after I have recovered from the speed flash...

[surrender]

I didnt try treeless browsing, but tried to hide the tree and realised that the catalog also goes away (which is obvious). But its a problem for guys (not me) who want only the catalog and not the tree.
And since you report a fast browsing without tree, having catalog without tree could be useful for some.

Bug: turning the tree off should automatically turn off catalog.

Note: I posted this topic here because i thought it was somehow relevant.

Edit: I love the tree though. I am lost without it.

[admin]

I didnt try treeless browsing, but tried to hide the tree and realised that the catalog also goes away (which is obvious). But its a problem for guys (not me) who want only the catalog and not the tree.
And since you report a fast browsing without tree, having catalog without tree could be useful for some.

No, misunderstanding. Browsing with the tree not visible is not what I called "treeless browsing" because, even when you don't see it, the tree is always working. "Treeless browsing" has never been implemented outside my office. It's too fast for the public

Bug: turning the tree off should automatically turn off catalog.

No. I should rather rename the menu command to "Show Tree/Catalog". The whole point of that command is "Show list only" anyway.