Few problems when using Xyplorer

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Helix
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Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by Helix »

Hi admin,
'no immediate plans to actually do it'
so this dosen't sounds very good for me & all others who want to have that feature to make simple & fast drag & drops. So what about creating some detour to make it work temporary or permanently (monitor) IF the user want to have it with any specific app's? Look my new little video below...
Drag_Drop_Sol.gif
Drag_Drop_Sol.gif (192.91 KiB) Viewed 750 times
...do you see? Working in this example. The main problem seems to be that you don't know "yet" how to make it work like in Windows Explorer & Co to keep the other apps in front which are set in front during a drag operation (I also don't know it yet). So if you want to prevent some system hooks to manage it then there is also a more simple solution you COULD use in XYplorer. Just add a new simple function / button etc to allow users to set any single speicifc app's in TopMost style to keep them in front so long the user want (optional with monitoring). In this case you can do those drag / drop operations like you can see in my video above. I know its a detour and not so nice (like WE does) but it would be an alternative to make it work that way without using the detour to drag over the taskbar you know.

PS: Of course I need to ask again & again so long till you developers find & implement a acceptable solution. :) You should see my infos / ideas as help so I'am here trying to make XYplorer better what we all want and thats all. If you don't see it as positive incentive to improve your XYplorer app then that's a pity. :?

admin
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Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by admin »

Check this out:

Code: Select all

v24.20.0504 - 2023-03-26 11:03
  + Configuration | General | Menus, Mouse, Usability | Mouse: Added option "Allow 
    dragging from a background window". Tick it to allow dragging items from the file list 
    without moving the XYplorer window to the foreground on mousedown. You would usually 
    want this behavior when dragging items to another, foreground, application.
    Notes:
    - You may see a short flicker in the titlebar of the foreground window.
    - The setting is ignored if "Configuration | General | Safety Belts, Network | Safety 
      Belts | Disallow left-dragging from file list" is ticked.
    - Since this is the standard behavior in File Explorer, the factory default is ON. 
      Upgraders, however, have to actively enable the feature.

Helix
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Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by Helix »

Hello admin,

thanks for unlocking my topic again and trying to fix that dragging problem in XYplorer. So I have seen this post just today because I thought you would no more trying to check my issues with your app etc. Now I did check the latest beta version 24.20.0536 and ticked that option on "Allow dragging from a background window" and I see it's working not bad so far. :) Almost same as in Windows Explorer. Also see that flashing in title bar you mention. I think you should try to refresh / update it similar as after a WM_SIZE message to prevent this flicker issues. When you move the XY window itself to make it larger or smaller with the mouse, then I do not see any flicker issues, so maybe you can try to fix this too later (InvalidateRect, RedrawWindow, UpdateWindow, etc). Otherwise, I also see a little problem when trying to drag a file. Sometimes it does not work after few times and the app windows which are in front do disappear into background. Looks like a random issue. Also, if you release the pressed mouse button inside XYP then you should bring XYP in front (same like WE). Anyway, it's already good that you added such an option now for users like me who need it, so thank you for this so far. Just try to keep working on that a little more to make it working better in the future if possible. If you do and make it working really perfect at the end then XYP is the file manager tool who can handle the drag operation on the same way as the Windows Explorer and all other FM tools I did already check out in the past having still that problem. Just wanna say that adding a correct drag function to outside windows is normally a must-have feature, but somehow the devs of those FM tools don't care about it (no idea why). So if XYP does care about it now, then your FM tool has of course a big advantage compared to other FM tools. It's just a simple feature but so important to have it and working correctly, but that is often underestimated you know.

admin
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Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by admin »

Yes, I like it too.

Helix
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Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by Helix »

Hello admin,

just want to send some feedback about the drag & drop function you added in version 24.30. Unfortunately, it's still not working correctly what makes me really sad, and I'm also disappointed about that because you guys had much time to improve it. Let's have a look what you said…
BD_2023-06-24_212551.png
BD_2023-06-24_212551.png (197.96 KiB) Viewed 555 times
…”A long awaited feature is finally implemented” but it's still not working right! So you can not say something like that when it's so buggy you know, and that's just misleading. I have taken the time to show you what exactly the problem is. Below you can see two short videos.

Problem 1: Drag & Drop into single app window, which is to see in front.
Drag_Drop_Problem.gif
Drag_Drop_Problem.gif (572.56 KiB) Viewed 555 times
As you can see, it fails after few times and that's pretty annoying when you want to work with that feature to check many files.

Problem 2: Drag & Drop when having more than one app windows in front.
Drag_Drop_Problem2.gif
Drag_Drop_Problem2.gif (521 KiB) Viewed 555 times
You see the problem, right. So I want you to fix those issues soon as possible because this feature is basic and important. If you don't know how, then get some help from other coders or ask around on specific forums etc. Don't waste your time with any gimmick features nobody really needs you know. Just focus on the real bugs in your source and fix them. I wish you guys would act more seriously.

Thanks

phred
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Location: Boston USA

Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by phred »

Helix wrote: 24 Jun 2023 22:55So I want you to fix those issues soon as possible because this feature is basic and important. If you don't know how, then get some help from other coders or ask around on specific forums etc. Don't waste your time with any gimmick features nobody really needs you know. Just focus on the real bugs in your source and fix them. I wish you guys would act more seriously.
Sorry, but I can't help myself. I think you're being somewhat demanding and rather rude.

If I were a developer and had to put up with your long-winded and repetitive posts, only to be told "I want you to fix those issues soon as possible..." I would choose to ignore you. Don can (and will) do what he wants, but I would suggest polite behavior may get better results than being rude.

avivariba
Posts: 87
Joined: 05 Mar 2023 07:38
Location: Win11@125% (second monitor@100%)

Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by avivariba »

Helix wrote: 24 Jun 2023 22:55 Hello admin,

just want to send some feedback about the drag & drop function you added in version 24.30. Unfortunately, it's still not working correctly what makes me really sad, and I'm also disappointed about that because you guys had much time to improve it. Let's have a look what you said…

…”A long awaited feature is finally implemented” but it's still not working right! So you can not say something like that when it's so buggy you know, and that's just misleading. I have taken the time to show you what exactly the problem is.
How is anyone supposed to improve a feature if they aren't aware of any issue? The feature was implemented, and it's working to the extent shown (besides there being a free demo to test your use cases in). There was no reason to say any of this, opposed to just reporting the problems (which would make your posts a lot shorter, and nicer for the developer too).

Problem 1) I can see it's legitimately inconsistent for you, but I personally can't recreate this (dragged over 50 times without issue);

Problem 2) I can confirm that it's indeed not working with multiple applications on top, unlike Windows File Explorer which does allow for that.

Helix
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Joined: 28 Dec 2022 21:29
Location: To lock my topic is no solution!

Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by Helix »

@phred
I'm not demanding and rude. I just bring up the problems and put them on the table, without to talk much around the hot mush. Just straight on the point. Maybe it's not your thing to understand that (type question) and it's of course even more simple to evade uncomfortable facts and put people on any ignore list (like you would do as you said) and do not answer questions anymore (like the admin does already) but this behavior is not really advantageous for the dev guys, and it's also throwing a bad light on them and the entire (XYplorer) project. Just imagine, other semi or pro software development companies would make some full-bodied announcement about new app features which are not working as they should, so what then? Not really cool, right. Also, I'm not here to attack anyone or something, so I'm just trying to help to improve the XYplorer app and that's all.

@avivariba
I told the admin already about that problem right after my first test. Just look at this post I made "11 Apr 2023 22:45" in this topic.

@Admin
Maybe you say something about that to bring some light in these open questions. Do you plain to find and fix the problem or not?

PS: Jetzt sei mal nicht so eingeschnappt nur weil dir mal jemand keinen Honig ums Maul schmiert und etwas kritisch ist. So was kommt vor aber das ist jetzt kein Grund rum zu schmollen und nix mehr zu sagen. Sag einfach was Sache ist und ob du weiterhin versuchen wirst das Problem zu finden und zu lösen oder ob alle die an einer funktionierenden Drag & Drop Funktion interessiert sind sich einen anderen Filemanager suchen müssen der das kann. Denk drüber nach (aber net so lange) und mach eine Ansage und bis dahin sage ich "Kölle Alaaf" Burli. ;)

MfG

avivariba
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Location: Win11@125% (second monitor@100%)

Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by avivariba »

Helix wrote: 27 Jun 2023 22:13 I'm not demanding and rude. I just bring up the problems and put them on the table, without to talk much around the hot mush. Just straight on the point.
Not to reply for phred or Don, but you were objectively talking "around the hot mush", not straight to the point, and you're most definitely being perceived as rude (hell, even that last paragraph of this latest message).

Personally, I still can't replicate the first problem of it sometimes not working (you initially did mention it, but you didn't really elaborate or make a big deal out of it, simply saying it seemed to sometimes not work but it generally still being a good feature to have).

I too would like the dragging from behind multiple windows (which you don't seem to have brought up before) and dragging-while-scrolling to be possible, but I fear for it given your approach. You could have put the Problem 1 and Problem 2 sections without the parts prior and after, and it'd be well-received. The first image and the claim of it being misleading were completely uncalled for. You're basically stating that "it's fraud, now fix the application for me", while the feature is there (even if not working consistently for you) and it nowhere saying that it works with multiple application windows (besides the aforementioned, free demo being available as well).

Don't forget that your idea of it "working correctly" (other than the bug you legitimately seem to be experiencing) is in comparison with Windows File Explorer, not as its own thing. Windows' explorer could help to justify your suggestions, but every now and then things just happen to be working differently. The first problem would be a legitimate bug, and could also be posted as such under Bug Reports, whereas the second problem would belong under Wishes instead.

Also, XY is run by just one person, and he is not our slave. I have been nothing but pleasantly surprised with how open Don is to suggestions and wishes, and the general speed with which changes, fixes and updates are made.

phred
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Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by phred »

Helix wrote: 27 Jun 2023 22:13 @phred
I'm not demanding and rude. I just bring up the problems and put them on the table, without to talk much around the hot mush. Just straight on the point.
Perhaps something is getting lost in translation, but it seems I'm not the only one who finds your posts as being rude. Don even banned you for a period of time.

But since this forum has always been polite, friendly, and civil, I will not contribute further to this discussion as I don't want it to turn ugly.

RalphM
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Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by RalphM »

Just stating here that I also felt your posts were "demanding and rude" and even with German - not English - being
my first language, I cannot see how this could get lost in translation. :whistle:
Ralph :)
(OS: W11 22H2 Home x64 - XY: Current beta - Office 2019 32-bit - Display: 1920x1080 @ 125%)

Helix
Posts: 23
Joined: 28 Dec 2022 21:29
Location: To lock my topic is no solution!

Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by Helix »

Hey guys,

@avivariba
Might be that my way to talk and bring up some thing is not everyone's thing (sorry about that if so) but that's me. Not sure why you can't replicate that problem 1 you can see on my first video. Maybe it depends on the speed of selecting a file and starting the drag process. Just try it again pretty quick without to wait after you pressed the left mouse down. Try to do it almost simultaneously. Maybe the problem is any sleep set time from mouse down till drag start. As you guys can see it's working a few times +/- and then it fails one time and all other windows disappear into background. So it would be a good feature if it would work for 100% as it does in Windows Explorer & Everything (voidtools) but it does not work in XYplorer and that's the bad news. Even to say that it works more or less is not really a good news if users like me want to work with that drag & drop function to outside apps you know. So this is not a good condition.

@phred
As I said, to ban people isn't really a good and diplomatic solution and more sign of weakness. I did not insult anyone to became rude to any person. I'm just talking directly without detours about the problems / bugs the app has and that's all. I even did not reproach about fraud or anything so I just did point on the message the author said about that "Background Dragging" feature which is unfortunately not working.

@RalphM
Ja ja Burli! Schonmal was von Spaß gehört? Ihr müsst doch alle net immer so ernst und verkrampft sein und jedes Wort auf die Goldwaage legen. Man man man du! Ich versuche doch nur die Sache auf den Punkt zu bringen ohne jemanden dabei auf den Schlips zu treten. Seid mal etwas mehr gelassener. Ich bin es doch auch und versuche seit Dezember 22 was zu erreichen damit diverse bugs in XYplorer behoben werden (mit eher weniger Erfolg bis jetzt). Also Donald, komm zurück und beteilige dich wieder an der Diskussion auf diesem Kanal. Danke.

avivariba
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Location: Win11@125% (second monitor@100%)

Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by avivariba »

Helix wrote: 28 Jun 2023 20:53sign of weakness. I did not insult anyone to became rude to any person. I'm just talking directly without detours
Spot the instant contradictions. :whistle:
Helix wrote: 28 Jun 2023 20:53Might be that my way to talk and bring up some thing is not everyone's thing (sorry about that if so) but that's me.
It's obvious that it's just you. That's the issue. Simply try to be a bit more empathetic. Keep things nice and short, and don't resort to making any demands. There's nothing wrong with having fun, until that fun is easily and obviously taken as an attack or insult. And given that leaving out such remarks would cut your replies in half also, it's a win-win, for that anyone could go through them much easier and faster then, meaning the problems could be tackled and hopefully solved much quicker. ;)

Back to the problem at hand, I somehow managed to recreate the issue on my second monitor (I was about to run a macro for it overnight and then it happened soon after):
dragtest.gif
dragtest.gif (558.33 KiB) Viewed 375 times
The dropping isn't necessary when testing. Just a mousedown + drag will do (as it happens prior to the drop):
dragonlytest.gif
dragonlytest.gif (862.75 KiB) Viewed 375 times
No idea why I have such trouble (or luck) making it happen on my main monitor though. I did notice the top application does always blink on that one (without that causing any issue), whereas on my second monitor it blinks only sometimes (could be a timing thing), and in Windows File Explorer it never does. I don't think that has anything to do with it, but perhaps.

I also discovered that Windows File Explorer sometimes randomly pops up to the top when a background drag from it is discarded (kind of the exact same issue but in reverse). XY tends to stay back as expected in that situation, so in that particular case XY is actually working better as for background dragging.

Helix
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Joined: 28 Dec 2022 21:29
Location: To lock my topic is no solution!

Re: Few problems when using Xyplorer

Post by Helix »

Hi again,
avivariba wrote:Spot the instant contradictions. :whistle:
No. There is contradiction.

I'm the nicest person at all of course and I do just wonder that you didn't notice yet. I also didn't demand anything so I just gave suggestions for improvement and did report about some bugs I found (read entire topic) and XYplorer isn't the first app I have checked and commented in the past. Mostly my reports and ideas are received positively (specially if they are entitled). So if you add a new feature X then it should also work and or if not then keep working on it to make it work. In case of that "Background Dragging" (what I suggested) I did report the problems right away after first release (I told already) but nothing more happens till today. So in my eyes is that "do nothing / don't care about it" behave pretty counterproductive and doesn't help anyone even not the developer itself (reputation devaluation). You can also see that the developer itself said nothing anymore about it and avoids taking a stand. I don't bite (yet). ;) It doesn't play any role whether the admin / developer likes me or not so it's all about the app bug / not working functions which should get managed respectively fixed for all XYplorer users they paid or plan to buy a license for the XYplorer app which is not exactly cheap (specially for pupils or students). If you as developer decide to make advertising with specific and significant features to lure new customers then they should also work for sure. If not then it's unfortunately just misleading. That's one reason why I did post the advertising image about the "Background Dragging" feature. So it's not unimportant to keep that in mind as developer of commercial software.

MfG

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