Enhanced Move/Copy/Backup To

[jacky]

So I know you have enhancing Move/Copy/Backup To on your roadmap already, so I thought I'd see if I could add a little on that item

I don't know if it's possible or not, but on the list of items to be moved/copied (on the bottom), could you have one part of the filenames in bold/italic ?

If so, I think I'd like to have a way to to tell which part of the path will not be included on the operations (as in, to tell what folders will be created in destination)
At first I thought to have that part in bold, but actually having the "excluded" part in italic might be better, I mean take less space.

[admin]

jacky, I read it several times on several days -- I don't get it.

[jacky]

jacky, I read it several times on several days -- I don't get it.

lol, allright let me try again

Actually, I realize that this feature actually only moves/copies files directly, never part of their folder structure (but a "Rich Operation" checkbox would be nice ) so it's probably useless in fact, unless the Rich Op are added.

It's just that, after a while of jumping to different places and moving/copying files, at some point I got a bit confused I guess and started to wonder if there was gonna be some folders included (as in, partial folder structure being recreated).

I'm guessing this happened because I did quite a few things, selecting files sometimes, folders on other times, using features that would sometimes create folders (folders are source, Move Into New Subfolder, Rich Operations, etc)
So adding all that, and sometimes initiating those operations from Search Results, at one point I was looking at this window, at the full source paths on the bottom, asking myself: now which "part" of those paths are actually gonne be moved (created on destination) ?

I do realize now that none were (except for the selected folders) but back then, that wasn't so obvious


Anyways, I think this would only be useful/makes sense if Rich Op were involved, so no worries. Alltough I would add this to my suggestions for the new M/C/B To interface, since as I mentionned above, actually having a "Rich Operation" checkbox, enabled when coming from SR, could be useful here. (Especially for those who never drag&drop, or when one don't feel like it, or must move/copy into a non-existing yet destination)

hmm... /me wonders if this post is less confusing than the one before

[admin]

jacky, I read it several times on several days -- I don't get it.

lol, allright let me try again

OK, now we are talking the same language.
- Without Rich Op your wish makes not much sense.
- Folders are in fact created if they don't exist but there's no sense in marking them in the source files. If at all, then mark them in the destination field! (Which is not possible, hehe )

Adding Rich Op here is in fact a good idea (hey, I'm looking for a better term for this since 8 years or so!!!!! "Rich Op"??? What a dumb term....)
Rich Op needs some absolute anchor point on which to base the relative paths that need to be created. In Find Files this anchor point is the searched location.
But in normal browsing? Can't be the current folder since then no sub-folders would be created. A cool thing would be to select the anchor point! Like in breadcrumb interface... or simply a breadcrumb-list:
Suppose we copy file D:\sub1\sub2\sub3\file.txt, then there would be a drop-down list like this:

Code: Select all

Select the base for Rich Op:
D:\
D:\sub1\
D:\sub1\sub2\
D:\sub1\sub2\sub3

When you select "D:\sub1" and copy to C:\target\ then file.ext would be copied to C:\target\sub2\sub3\file.txt, the bold parts being created on the fly.
Or maybe easier the other way round:

Code: Select all

Select sub folders that are to be created in target:
sub1\sub2\sub3\
sub2\sub3\
sub3\
(none)

BUT: all this is quite difficult for newbies... I certainly don't want to have the term Rich Op in the MCB dialog!

[jacky]

- Folders are in fact created if they don't exist but there's no sense in marking them in the source files. If at all, then mark them in the destination field! (Which is not possible, hehe )

Well, I don't know. I think this makes sense, at least it does to me:
Source:
C:\source\sub2\sub3\file.txt
To "highlight" that "sub2\sub3" will be recreated on destination.

A cool thing would be to select the anchor point! Like in breadcrumb interface... or simply a breadcrumb-list:

Oh yeah, that'd be pretty cool indeed!

BUT: all this is quite difficult for newbies... I certainly don't want to have the term Rich Op in the MCB dialog!

I don't think the "difficiult for newbies" should refrain you from doing this.
Seriously, maybe it would be [difficult for newbies], but for users who knows it'd be awesome so screw the newbies! Plus, once a newbie read the help, and knows what the feature does and how it works, once a newbie opened the magic box, it will not be so difficult anymore, and for sure (s)he'll be happy to enjoy the full power of XY!

Also, if you wanna drop the "Rich Op" term, I don't have a replacement to use, but for here (MCB dialog) you could simply go with something that only "describes" the feature, along the lines as, like you said, "Select Folders To Be Created In Destination", or "Select Root Folder For Preserving Folder Structure"....

[x] Preserve Folder Structure, Starting On : (select base path here)

[admin]

Yes, I'll think about it... but first things first... 6.0...

[admin]

I don't think the "difficiult for newbies" should refrain you from doing this.
Seriously, maybe it would be [difficult for newbies], but for users who knows it'd be awesome so screw the newbies! ...

Well, the same argument returns more often than Batman, Spiderman and Superman combined: user wants a certain feature ("why not; more is more!"), developer wants to keep program slim, fast, and highly usable ("less is more!"). I could also call it the "DOpus trap" , by which I mean -- in the extreme -- add everything that's imaginable and you end up with an app that can do everything but nobody knows how. Infinite uses but no users.
I find this very interesting -- here we are at the core of the ZEN of file management (or whatever's your objective): options are not good as such! Because: they force decisions on the user, for which he needs knowledge and has to take responsability. And they clutter the screen, intrude the user's brain via the visual channel, and are non-stop demanding: read me!, understand me!, change me!...

Donald's Radical Software Design Statement: the optimal software would force no decisions at all on the user, but just do its job by itself, at the right time, and in the right way, and then destroy itself. Job done.

IOW: I like the Move/Copy/Backup To as it is very much! Because it is un-enhanced!

[jacky]

Well... so you don't want to cluter the window & add options everywhere on that dialog, then you could always make it an option!

I find this very interesting -- here we are at the core of the ZEN of file management (or whatever's your objective): options are not good as such! Because: they force decisions on the user, for which he needs knowledge and has to take responsability. And they clutter the screen, intrude the user's brain via the visual channel, and are non-stop demanding: read me!, understand me!, change me!...

Donald's Radical Software Design Statement: the optimal software would force no decisions at all on the user, but just do its job by itself, at the right time, and in the right way, and then destroy itself. Job done.

hmm... I'm not really sure I agree with you there. I mean, I do see what you're saying, and you're right, ideally to the user too what's best is a software that does what the users wants/needs to be done, a software that does it quick, fast, simple, without the need to read hundreds of pages of help to get it done. Obviously.

Yet, I do believe that this is what the "ultimate goal" is, that's how the software should be like to the user once they've met & agreed on things. But that part, the "let's meet & define ourselves some rules to work together", the user defining its own options, is a must!

Quick example, if I may. Let's leave file management for a bit and move to Internet browsing. I am a huge fan of Maxthon, which is - to me - wihtout a doubt the best thing out there. Yes, IE-based blablablah, nevertheless it is fast, powerfull, and does everything that I need him to do how/when I need/want to.
Pretty much as you said, it does its job the right way, at the right time, and that's just great. I use it every day & I never have to go into bunch of (obscure) options to get things done.

Yet, to get there, when I first installed Maxhton, I was thrilled that it did had all those options, because that is exactly the reason I love it, too : it let me make Maxthon *my* browser, as in the one that will do what I need, when I need it, how I need it.

This is also what's great about XY, when I run XY over here, it is now become *my* file manager, it behaves the way i want because I set up all those nice little options the way I want them to be.

I don't think people asked you so much, or love so much CKS just for the fun of it, or to keep you always more busy but because options are good, sometimes. They allow the user to make the software his, and once that happened, that's usually when addiction kicks in & the two can't be separated anymore.

[admin]

Well... so you don't want to cluter the window & add options everywhere on that dialog, then you could always make it an option! ...

Okay, your last post made the things clearer for me: there are two kinds of "options", and I will give them two names now,
(1) Configuration (Settings): that's what you like about Maxthon and about CKS: it's a one-time thing, you shape your tool.
(2) Options: these are the things that jump into your face while working with the tool. They interrupt your work because you have to decide "check or uncheck", "a or b or c" etc. These are about using the tool.

I was mainly thinking of the 2nd kind "Options". These should be reduced to a minimum. With XYplorer even more than with other software, because since you can have an unlimited number of parallel "installations" you can have different Configuration/Tools and use them as needed.

[jacky]

Okay, your last post made the things clearer for me: there are two kinds of "options"

Yeah I realized that too, but i had already written the whole thing down so I kept things that way, lazy me

And yes, those "options" should be reduced to a minimum indeed, doesn't mean they should be avoided at all cost either!
If you don't want to add this to the current M/C/B window, you could still create a new feature, called "Rich Move/Copy", which would "include them". Not really an option anymore, but a different feature.

I still think totally dropping this out isn't the best move, also because the Rich Op are pretty useful as they are (D&D, from SR), so having them available in another way than D&D could be a good thing. Because not everyone drag&drop (there's even a "setting" to disable it!), because sometimes it can be seen as "easier"/safer not to D&D, because you might wanna "rich move/copy" into a non-existing yet path, ...

BTW you know another "option" that would be cool, right-clicking on the "white header" (Copy To - Choose Destination Folder") would popup a menu to switch between Move/Copy/Backup...

[admin]

If you don't want to add this to the current M/C/B window, you could still create a new feature, called "Rich Move/Copy", which would "include them". Not really an option anymore, but a different feature.

Okay, that's better (but again: it makes the already long menu longer ). I even had a situation yesterday, when I could have used this feature, so I probably add it

BTW you know another "option" that would be cool, right-clicking on the "white header" (Copy To - Choose Destination Folder") would popup a menu to switch between Move/Copy/Backup...

What do you gain by this?

[jacky]

What do you gain by this?

Well, just in case you hit the wrong keys/buttons, and so eg. went Copy instead of Move, but already typed in/browsed to the destination. Just easier/faster than copy to clipboard, call the right op., and paste in the destination. Doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it could be nice... and I just thought, if it's only like a flag somewhere to change (plus update the captions on window), might not be a big deal...

[jacky]

Ok, here's another one I'd like very much

On that window, either a button or (better) a ctxt menu on the MRU, with one nice feature: Sort

Yeah i know, can be done in LM, but it would be much better to be able to do it on-the-fly, while looking at the long MRU list for something you know it's there but can't find it... (After all, we can already remove/reorder items, so why not let us sort them from here as well )

[admin]

On that window, either a button or (better) a ctxt menu on the MRU, with one nice feature: Sort

Done.