Delete which skips locked files

Post by **admin** » 21 Sep 2006 09:24

j_c_hallgren wrote:Ok... Forgot that System files will cause a prompt in 2nd pass!

And...as locked is something that isn't visible externally, that's what makes it unusual...but what about read-only?

As I understand it (correct me if wrong), RO can be set as attribute on file and remain set until changed (and is thus visible in list and can be filtered that way)
-OR- the file can be opened by an applic as RO, in which case, it is not visible, so user may select files that are currently in use without knowing it, correct? So our brain may not know what files are being used and thus is what would be helpful to detect and leave those alone...

Well, locked or RO or whatever, the point is: "Is it deletable?" AFAIK, only locked files are not deletable, it's more or less synonymous. I could (should?) have called the function "Delete (Skip Undeletable)".

jacky · Post by **jacky** » 21 Sep 2006 16:43

j_c_hallgren wrote:the file can be opened by an applic as RO, in which case, it is not visible, so user may select files that are currently in use without knowing it, correct?

hmm.. I think not. A file is RO when the attribute is set. When open by an application, it can be locked, so in use/can't be deleted/etc and that isn't visible, hence what this Skip feature will check for us.

admin wrote:I could (should?) have called the function "Delete (Skip Undeletable)".

I don't think so, as "Undeletable" sounds really unclear of what it really is/means, while "Locked" is the "official" term used. I mean as I neewbie discovering this feature, I know what "Skip Locked" means, but "Skip Undeletable" ?? What is "undeletable" ? Does read-only count? Does that mean "System" items? or damaged ones?

On a side note, seems you're only looking for locked files, but folders can happen to be locked too

admin wrote:Hmm, yummie. Would nicely fit into "Paste Special" which then needs to be renamed to... uhm... "Clipboard Special", hey, we have discussed that before somewhere...

Yes we have, with the "Append to Clipboard" feature. This should all be in your freezer somewhere

Post by **admin** » 21 Sep 2006 16:50

jacky wrote:On a side note, seems you're only looking for locked files, but folders can happen to be locked too

Yes, I guess that happened when allen's error "Cannot delete 2984: Access is denied." popped. I'm just waiting for his confirmation...

BTW, I have a very big fridge!

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 21 Sep 2006 17:48

Maybe Delete Unlocked but "Skip Undeletable", nah!
And I presume this feature will be added to Help & Keyboard Shortcuts at some point in near future? Just a tiny nudge so it doesn't get overlooked...

Anyway, just to see what happens...I had a folder with two TXT files in it...nothing fancy...opened one with NotePad so it was "in use"...well, delete did its thing without any issues on BOTH files! So to keep currently in-use files from being deleted, it appears the applic would need to lock it and one can't depend on that occuring, thus..be cautious about which folders one does a delete contents on!

Post by **admin** » 21 Sep 2006 22:29

j_c_hallgren wrote:Anyway, just to see what happens...I had a folder with two TXT files in it...nothing fancy...opened one with NotePad so it was "in use"...well, delete did its thing without any issues on BOTH files! So to keep currently in-use files from being deleted, it appears the applic would need to lock it and one can't depend on that occuring, thus..be cautious about which folders one does a delete contents on!

Yes, correct. An app normally can decide whether to open a file "locked" or "shared". The latter is deletable.

Post by **admin** » 22 Sep 2006 11:21

jacky wrote:Maybe what could be done is to "expand" this feature to this: "Copy All But Locked Files To Clipboard". Cause the same error happens when you try to copy/move files with one or two locked: error, abort, some files have been copied/moved, others haven't, you're fucked, have a nice day.

Too bad, there's one problem here: the Skip Locked procedure has to recurse all selected folders and the items copied to the clipboard will be from different locations. Other apps cannot handle this since they do not have Rich Copy. So when you Copy (Skip Locked) and then paste you won't get what you expect.

So all I could offer is a ("rich") drag&drop "Copy/Move (Skip Locked)" (bypasses the clipboard).

itsme28m · Post by **itsme28m** » 22 Sep 2006 13:11

I think there is no other way then this function to be available but to warn the users that there can be opened file in an application but not locked, so they are warned.

It's not really a programmers bug that it is or is not locked. And one things come to my mind here, there are multiple applications that can work with one file, or an application where you can work with multiple people on one document, this couldn't be done if the file was blocked i gues.

So a short warning in the dialog where you click yes/no and in the helpfile, and the wikkifile is a good thing ;-).

Greetings,

Steve

jacky · Post by **jacky** » 22 Sep 2006 15:53

admin wrote:Too bad, there's one problem here: the Skip Locked procedure has to recurse all selected folders and the items copied to the clipboard will be from different locations. Other apps cannot handle this since they do not have Rich Copy. So when you Copy (Skip Locked) and then paste you won't get what you expect.

oh, right. Well could still be a nice thing to add, but it doesn't really have to deal with Rich Operations. I mean I hear what you're saying, but on a user point of view, "Rich" is from search results, with "different locations".
I know this here ends up being the same situation, but would still feel "weird" I think.

Now you can still add a Move/Copy here (Skip Locked) on the right-drag&drop ctxt menu, or even add a checkbox "Skip Locked" on the Move/Copy/Backup To windows ?

Post by **admin** » 22 Sep 2006 22:15

jacky wrote:
admin wrote:Too bad, there's one problem here: the Skip Locked procedure has to recurse all selected folders and the items copied to the clipboard will be from different locations. Other apps cannot handle this since they do not have Rich Copy. So when you Copy (Skip Locked) and then paste you won't get what you expect.
oh, right. Well could still be a nice thing to add, but it doesn't really have to deal with Rich Operations. I mean I hear what you're saying, but on a user point of view, "Rich" is from search results, with "different locations".
I know this here ends up being the same situation, but would still feel "weird" I think.

Now you can still add a Move/Copy here (Skip Locked) on the right-drag&drop ctxt menu, or even add a checkbox "Skip Locked" on the Move/Copy/Backup To windows ?

Yes, I could. But it would be a lot of work. Currently it's not worth it because there are more interesting things on my roadmap:

- dual pane
- customizable keyboard shortcuts
- undo (and it's gonna be the best undo you've seen!)
- breadcrumb navigation
- drop stacks
- copy here from...
- synch
- scriptability
- file comments
- shell commands via address bar & co
- and about two thousand other little ideas...

whoops, "dual pane" was just a joke

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 23 Sep 2006 04:12

Ok...so what the heck is breadcrumb navigation?

And...there is at least one of us (

) who still has to use another vendors product which IS dual pane in order to be able to do certain tasks in what I see as most efficient way!
As much as I've tried doing it via XY using various ways, it's SO much easier when I have both folders available at exact same time....plus...there are some minor features available thusly that XY doesn't have...maybe synch will handle some of this..

As I've said before, sometimes one has to use products besides XY to best do some things...but XY is still running 99.9% of time on system!

Post by **admin** » 23 Sep 2006 08:38

j_c_hallgren wrote:Ok...so what the heck is breadcrumb navigation?

Hansel and Gretel used it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadcrumb ... igation%29

j_c_hallgren wrote:And...there is at least one of us ( ) who still has to use another vendors product which IS dual pane in order to be able to do certain tasks in what I see as most efficient way!
As much as I've tried doing it via XY using various ways, it's SO much easier when I have both folders available at exact same time....plus...there are some minor features available thusly that XY doesn't have...maybe synch will handle some of this..

As I've said before, sometimes one has to use products besides XY to best do some things...but XY is still running 99.9% of time on system!

No problem. I think the computer is a software eco-system where various species can not only coexist but colaborate symbiotically/synergetically.
I can easily leave 0.1% of the work to the competitors.

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 23 Sep 2006 09:29

So I looked at the wikipedia entry and this related one:
http://user-experience.org/uefiles/brea ... crumbs.pdf

I had previously presumed that term as only applying to web pages but not as related to a file manager...as paths on a folder based system is the only way to get a particular file, whereas one may get to a web page from multiple ways...so in a few words, exactly how would this be applied to XY?

Post by **admin** » 23 Sep 2006 09:36

j_c_hallgren wrote:So I looked at the wikipedia entry and this related one:
http://user-experience.org/uefiles/brea ... crumbs.pdf

I had previously presumed that term as only applying to web pages but not as related to a file manager...as paths on a folder based system is the only way to get a particular file, whereas one may get to a web page from multiple ways...so in a few words, exactly how would this be applied to XY?

I'm not totally done with the thinking, but roughly: the AB (Address Bar) will get a 2nd state (toggleble), where you can left-click the individual parts of the current path to simply go there, and right-click them to get a menu with the sibling nodes (issue: what if they are too many???).

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 23 Sep 2006 10:05

Ah-so! Sort of a variant of auto-complete but on a node level, yes?
And you're correct...what would one do when there are hundreds of choices for a node level???

Even though I'm NOT a AB user, I can see where this could be useful/handy. I don't recall seeing this in a user wish so is this a Don wish,
and is there a real demand for this compared to other things on the list?

Maybe we could have some sort of an informal USER vote/poll on what we might see as priorities of the task list you presented? Only so that you don't spend a lot of time first on something that may not be as much of a want as another item...though one NEVER knows what might influence a potential new user to pick/buy XY! Or...those who are current users but not active as we are here!

Post by **admin** » 23 Sep 2006 10:31

j_c_hallgren wrote:Even though I'm NOT a AB user, I can see where this could be useful/handy. I don't recall seeing this in a user wish so is this a Don wish...

Don't forget, the Beta Club is just one source of user feedback for me (although the most important!). Additionally I get a LOT of emails every day. Also there are some other forums and news groups on the net where XY is discussed.

XYplorer Beta Club

Delete which skips locked files

I think there is no other way..