Extensive Thumbnail Processing Limbo / No Notification

[Zardoz2293]

Concern:

• Extensive time can be spent building thumbnails without any kind of end-user feedback as status only updated on 'known' formats.
• A significant amount of time can be spent 'loading' and/or associating the preexisting cache.
• Nothing can be done in XY during either of these processes and it can cause W7 to want to terminate the application if you attempt to perform an action in XY during this 'time-out' period.

Example:
Have the settings below (see Thumbnail settings image). In a folder with many videos (images, etc. but videos are more intense) of various sources (.mpg; .wmv; .avi; .mov) - Most videos are an unknown format (thumbnail will not be rendered).

Equipment:
Performed on 980X @3.4Ghz, 24GB RAM, SSD (Boots 15s), thumbnail building process took 1m 43s w/o being able to do anything from within XY ("not responding" message can be displayed).

Wish:
1. During thumbnail building the 'activity message status' would be updated regardless of 'known' or 'unknown' file format scan activity.
2. Perform thumbnail building as an out of process/oopp event to allow XY functionality to continue.

Thoughts:
Yes, changes could be made in the Thumbnails configuration to increase speed. However, the settings exist and they should be fluid in their implementation.

[serendipity]

Concern:

• Extensive time can be spent building thumbnails without any kind of end-user feedback as status only updated on 'known' formats.
• A significant amount of time can be spent 'loading' and/or associating the preexisting cache.
• Nothing can be done in XY during either of these processes and it can cause W7 to want to terminate the application if you attempt to perform an action in XY during this 'time-out' period.

Example:
Have the settings below (see Thumbnail settings image). In a folder with many videos (images, etc. but videos are more intense) of various sources (.mpg; .wmv; .avi; .mov) - Most videos are an unknown format (thumbnail will not be rendered).

Equipment:
Performed on 980X @3.4Ghz, 24GB RAM, SSD (Boots 15s), thumbnail building process took 1m 43s w/o being able to do anything from within XY ("not responding" message can be displayed).

Wish:
1. During thumbnail building the 'activity message status' would be updated regardless of 'known' or 'unknown' file format scan activity.
2. Perform thumbnail building as an out of process/oopp event to allow XY functionality to continue.

Thoughts:
Yes, changes could be made in the Thumbnails configuration to increase speed. However, the settings exist and they should be fluid in their implementation.

Creating all thumbnails at once comes with a cost.
High-quality (skipping Superfast) thumbs makes this even more time consuming.
You do get a message that thumbs are being created.
You can end it with escape obviously.

[Zardoz2293]

Creating all thumbnails at once comes with a cost.
High-quality (skipping Superfast) thumbs makes this even more time consuming.
You do get a message that thumbs are being created.
You can end it with escape obviously.

The time consuming aspect isn't the concern. The application process can be non-responsive coupled with no EU feedback indicating activity (which appears to occur when an icon image can't be rendered). An out-of-process building of the icons would prevent the app-hang. Currently Windows eventually responses with prompting for termination of the application. I'm old school development and this kind of response, regardless of how long the activity may take, would be classified as a bug/defect. I'm simply reporting as a 'wish' to be considered for correction. I'm aware that an extensive effort might be required to resolve.

[j_c_hallgren]

An out-of-process building of the icons would prevent the app-hang. Currently Windows eventually responses with prompting for termination of the application. I'm old school development and this kind of response, regardless of how long the activity may take, would be classified as a bug/defect. I'm simply reporting as a 'wish' to be considered for correction. I'm aware that an extensive effort might be required to resolve.

And I may be totally wrong about this since I'm not a VB developer, but out-of-process may not be as easy or possible with the language that XY is coded in (VB)...though XYcopy is a separate module so something like that might be possible.

[Zardoz2293]

And I may be totally wrong about this since I'm not a VB developer, but out-of-process may not be as easy or possible with the language that XY is coded in (VB)...though XYcopy is a separate module so something like that might be possible.

I'm assuming your referencing VB6, if so, I've done it (that is: out-of-process) since 1998. In the current versions of .NET its easy (well, all depending on your implementation). If Don has the code library already built for this it would be low overhead to implement relative to having to build it, which I wouldn't recommend at this point in the game (assuming VB6). Code conversion (VB6-32) can be converted in .NET 2005 (I believe it was the last supported VB6 conversion support) and from there through to .NET 2010. If you have highly optimized VB6 code it can be done successfully. Having RtlMoveMemory, ObjectFromPtr, etc. can be a real trick.

Just putting in the queue to see it in his .NET implementation or whatever the 64-bit will be using, when available.

[j_c_hallgren]

I'm assuming your referencing VB6, if so, I've done it (that is: out-of-process) there since 1998.

Ok - like I said, just a guess...

In the current versions of .NET its easy (well, all depending on your implementation).

And based on what Don has posted before, XY will never get anywhere near a .NET setup...I believe he highly dislikes it...he's been waiting for a 64-bit VB compiler instead.

BTW, XY used to create all thumbs when you went to a folder but that was changed to only create the ones that are visible at that time some while back, AFAIK.

[Zardoz2293]

And based on what Don has posted before, XY will never get anywhere near a .NET setup...I believe he highly dislikes it...he's been waiting for a 64-bit VB compiler instead.

Very interesting, one would think Don once worked at Microsoft. I have friends who work/worked at Microsoft and have made some of the strongest statements against .NET . Given all of the .NET shortcomings it is a significant improvement, but that's my opinion. I'm just hoping I live long enough to see the true end of DLL/GAC, Versioning, D&SMC, etc. HELL resolved at the MS level with an intuitive and easy implementation that works in the first release, before any SP's CTP's, RC's, etc. Oh, and D&SMC, is what I suspect Don really don't like and neither do I; D&SMC = Decompile & Steal My Code (and/or it could be the obscene developer tool fee structure).

What 64-bit VB version are you referencing? The VS 2012 with .NET 4.5 or something else?

BTW, XY used to create all thumbs when you went to a folder but that was changed to only create the ones that are visible at that time some while back, AFAIK.

I don't know what the actual activity which is occurring as repeat visits to that specific folder cause the event. Like I said before, I think it might have something to do with videos that don't have the thumbnail created from some codec issue and then it tries to create them upon each entry or session of XY. I don't know, it just looks like that is the behavior.

[eil]

one doesn't need to work in MS to don't like .Net i'm glad Don never wishes to use that, 'cause it's a pretty resources consumable platform, which is totally opposite to XY's behaviour.

[admin]

Extensive time can be spent building thumbnails without any kind of end-user feedback as status only updated on 'known' formats.

I experimentally added status feedback for all thumbs that are about to be freshly created (that are not found in any cache). This will cost a little time but I think it's worth it. Check next beta (v10.60.0103).

[Zardoz2293]

Extensive time can be spent building thumbnails without any kind of end-user feedback as status only updated on 'known' formats.

I experimentally added status feedback for all thumbs that are about to be freshly created (that are not found in any cache). This will cost a little time but I think it's worth it. Check next beta (v10.60.0103).

Using v10.60.0116 and I do see an improvement.

However, I experience interesting behavior occurring sporadically, perhaps 1 in 7 times (it gets amplified, 1 in 3 times having KatMouse loaded): As stated herein (lots of videos in folder), thumbnail view (128x180, create all at once, cache on disk -- nothing added, already built), scroll down the list from the top to the bottom (List View) with the mouse wheel (try various speeds). XY goes into limbo doing something. Example: do the above, then click on another folder in the tree view (immediately after scrolling), the delay can be impressive for XY to select the 'new' selected folder. (During whatever is going on no feedback in the GUI exists and XY is totally unresponsive. XY process CPU load ranges from 4-8% on 980X while otherwise its a > 0.1%)

[admin]

Extensive time can be spent building thumbnails without any kind of end-user feedback as status only updated on 'known' formats.

I experimentally added status feedback for all thumbs that are about to be freshly created (that are not found in any cache). This will cost a little time but I think it's worth it. Check next beta (v10.60.0103).

Using v10.60.0116 and I do see an improvement.

However, I experience interesting behavior occurring sporadically, perhaps 1 in 7 times (it gets amplified, 1 in 3 times having KatMouse loaded): As stated herein (lots of videos in folder), thumbnail view (128x180, create all at once, cache on disk -- nothing added, already built), scroll down the list from the top to the bottom (List View) with the mouse wheel (try various speeds). XY goes into limbo doing something. Example: do the above, then click on another folder in the tree view (immediately after scrolling), the delay can be impressive for XY to select the 'new' selected folder. (During whatever is going on no feedback in the GUI exists and XY is totally unresponsive. XY process CPU load ranges from 4-8% on 980X while otherwise its a > 0.1%)

I will look at this later, thanks.

[Zardoz2293]

I will look at this later, thanks.

Don, as a follow up: If XY hasn't created the thumbnails in a folder, once it starts this process them, XY is unresponsive until it finishes. You cannot select another folder or otherwise until done. If you have folders with large number of images this can last for a long, long time. Would be nice if this was spun off as an out-of-process activity to allow XY to be fluid.

What are your thoughts?

[admin]

This will not be improved in the foreseeable future. The recommended (and factory) settings is: untick "Create all thumbnails at once". This solves the issue.

[Zardoz2293]

This will not be improved in the foreseeable future. The recommended (and factory) settings is: untick "Create all thumbnails at once". This solves the issue.

"Create all thumbnails at once" now set as Disabled. Interesting thumbnail creating once took almost 2 minutes to generate in some folders are now created in about 100 milliseconds, or about 1200000 times faster! Frankly, can't see why the feature is even needed now.