Custom Move

[eil]

as i understood what is wanted is an ability to temporally switch Custom Copy off for current operation. yet i see here a discussion about shortcuts(rather complicated IMO). why not just make a shortcut feature(for ex Shift+Mouse drag) for this temporally CC switch off? by the way, if it'll be customizable one could change it latter, while by default it can be decided whether to make Left or Right Mouse Button Drag to take action.
or even better : how about this feature not to "switch off CC temporally", but "provide contrary settings"(rather clumsy description..sorry ). that means, if my setting are to use CC and i want to make this particular copy/move with Shell Copy, i'll use Ctrl+Shift+C/X or Shift+Left/Right Mouse Button Drag.
at the same time, this will allow to users who for some reasons don't use CC(or switched it off in settings temporally) to use it in any particular copy/move job, with very same shortcuts

[Jerry]

The current state of this discussion, I believe, is that Don is going to think some more about my last suggestion of holding down Shift-Alt while doing a mouse dragged copy/move (left click/click) which would somehow result in a dialog asking whether you want to either 1) do a regular foreground shell copy/move or 2) continue as is, assuming one had custom move/copy and/or background processing enabled globally by default.

NOTE: This is a little bit different than the way I originally stated it (proposing a menu), because I realize now that, when you hold down the right mouse button --- with this Shift-Alt modifier or not --- you would always want to get the current popup menu of both move and copy choices (and branches, increments, etc.). So we are talking here about a final dialog that would come up after that regular popup menu (in the case of move). In the case of a left-click copy drag with Shift-Alt, you would just get the dialog.

The other thing I last suggested was that this feature could also work the other way -- ie. if you did not otherwise have custom copy and/or background processing globally enabled, the dialog would instead ask you whether to do a custom copy/move custom in the background.

[eil]

well, as far as i understand, i proposed the same but with less "troubles" no need for double-shortcut(Shift-Alt), one of them would be sufficient(it shouldn't be "another" shortcut, it ought to be "modified-common" one). same no need for dialog asking whether you want do "this" or "that"- if you made operation with not ordinary way, but +additional keys, it already should mean you know what you do.
maybe i'm still missing something, but my idea seems to be like a conclusion to your both discussions..

an ordinary user works with CC enabled. than for some reason he wants to make copy with Shell Copy, for only that particular job. he uses Shift+Ctrl+C(by the way, at the destination folder, it may be done so that user doesn't need to push Shift+.. just Ctrl+V). then user wants to copy a large amount of data to external flash-drive(with verification), so he uses ordinary Right Mouse Drag. after that he again wants to make a Shell Copy for few dozens of small files, so he holds Shift+ Right Mouse Drag = he will see very same context menu as we all do when making Right Drag, but XY will temporally override settings to use CC, and that job will be done by Shell Copy.

[Jerry]

The specific shortcut is a minor issue and can just be Shift or anything else; I'll take whatever I can get. The dialog was suggested by Don because there is an issue of these kind of shortcuts being hidden and forgotten by users and in some way being a burden. But I agree with you, I don't see a need for it personally, since we're talking about something that only people interested in this function would do and probably not forget. And also, as I pointed out, it seems a consistent and appropriate auxiliary action to the current behavior, in a similar way to holding down Shift with Ctrl-Wheel changes line spacing, instead of font size.

In any case, we're both on the same page here. Let's just wait for Don's final verdict.

[admin]

I tried something with gestures, check next beta...

[Jerry]

I tried something with gestures, check next beta...
v10.40.0106 - 2011-10-18 20:27 List: Experimentally added a mouse gesture to force
shell/foreground mode for the current file operation. When you
drag the selected files, quickly drag the mouse up-right (45°)
for more than 100 pixels, and then back down-left (near) to the
point where you started (all within 2 seconds).

You are kidding about this, aren't you? I can't even get it to work and I use gestures in Firefox all the time! But seriously, why would you want to go with this approach rather than a more straight-forward mouse/key shortcut? Surely this is more of a kludgey, hidden, harder to remember and even harder to carry out solution (for me at least) than anything already discussed.

In any case, exactly how does this work? When do you do this 45 degree upward drag and back -- before releasing over the target, after you get the popup context menu or what? Neither seems to work for me. Or perhaps you didn't update the No-Install Package link, because my XYplorer still reports version 10.40.0105.

[admin]

I tried something with gestures, check next beta...
v10.40.0106 - 2011-10-18 20:27 List: Experimentally added a mouse gesture to force
shell/foreground mode for the current file operation. When you
drag the selected files, quickly drag the mouse up-right (45°)
for more than 100 pixels, and then back down-left (near) to the
point where you started (all within 2 seconds).

You are kidding about this, aren't you? I can't even get it to work and I use gestures in Firefox all the time! But seriously, why would you want to go with this approach rather than a more straight-forward mouse/key shortcut? Surely this is more of a kludgey, hidden, harder to remember and even harder to carry out solution (for me at least) than anything already discussed.

In any case, exactly how does this work? When do you do this 45 degree upward drag and back -- before releasing over the target, after you get the popup context menu or what? Neither seems to work for me. Or perhaps you didn't update the No-Install Package link, because my XYplorer still reports version 10.40.0105.

Wait for the next version, it's working (even) better.

[admin]

You do the gesture right after grabbing the files with the mouse. Here's a pic. Only then you hover the target and drop.

[Jerry]

I just tried v10.40.0107 - 2011-10-18 21:10 and still can't get it to work. I'm dropping the files onto another tab, which is what I do nearly all the time. But can't get it to work even when dropping onto another list in dual pane mode. Also version still reports 10.40.0105 but timestamp on files has changed.

You must be pulling my leg.

[admin]

I just tried v10.40.0107 - 2011-10-18 21:10 and still can't get it to work. I'm dropping the files onto another tab, which is what I do nearly all the time. But can't get it to work even when dropping onto another list in dual pane mode. Also version still reports 10.40.0105 but timestamp on files has changed.

You must be pulling my leg.

Something is wrong with your browser cache. Press Ctrl+F5 in your browser.

You MUST have 10.40.0107 otherwise it CANNOT work.

[TheQwerty]

It works here and XY is correctly reporting as 10.40.0107.

[Jerry]

Something is wrong with your browser cache. Press Ctrl+F5 in your browser.
You MUST have 10.40.0107 otherwise it CANNOT work.

Ok, you're right. I've never see that happen before with a download link. But I downloaded using Cygwin wget from a command prompt just to be sure and got the gesture to work. However, you really have to get the 45 degree angle just right.

Still, I'm just so curious as to why you would prefer this gesture to simply holding down the Shift key (or Shift-Alt, whatever) when dragging, especially in light of the previous discussions? Is the mouse/key shortcut difficult to implement for this situation?

[admin]

Something is wrong with your browser cache. Press Ctrl+F5 in your browser.
You MUST have 10.40.0107 otherwise it CANNOT work.

Ok, you're right. I've never see that happen before with a download link. But I downloaded using Cygwin wget from a command prompt just to be sure and got the gesture to work. However, you really have to get the 45 degree angle just right.

Still, I'm just so curious as to why you would prefer this gesture to simply holding down the Shift key (or Shift-Alt, whatever) when dragging, especially in light of the previous discussions? Is the mouse/key shortcut difficult to implement for this situation?

The gesture is one-handed.
Touch screen friendly.
Status bar feedback.
Easily extensible.

Whereas the various Ctrl/Shift/Alt + Mouse-button combinations are already widely in use and they are used according to Windows standards. Maybe Win8 adds one of the still free combinations... It does not feel right to mix XY-specific stuff into that paradigm.

BTW, the angle is not important. You just have to touch the yellow rectangle.

[TheQwerty]

Any reason this toggle isn't (or won't be) also available as a command in CKS?
Personally, I believe almost everything that can be triggered in XY should be available in CKS.

[Jerry]

The gesture is one-handed.
Touch screen friendly.
Status bar feedback.
Easily extensible.

Whereas the various Ctrl/Shift/Alt + Mouse-button combinations are already widely in use and they are used according to Windows standards. Maybe Win8 adds one of the still free combinations... It does not feel right to mix XY-specific stuff into that paradigm.

BTW, the angle is not important. You just have to touch the yellow rectangle.

Ok, that all makes sense. But I definitely find the activation is sensitive to the angle or to something because it seems to take me several round trip motions to get it right - and I am definitely more than 100 pixels distant. But I can live with it.

(Windows 8, yuck! I sure hope not to have to deal with that for as long as I can.)