Custom Move

Features wanted...
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zer0
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Re: Custom Move

Post by zer0 »

admin wrote:Sure, but the point is: If overwriting happens the warning could be a false positive.
Why worry about the bridge you may not have to cross until you come to it?
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nas8e9
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Re: Custom Move

Post by nas8e9 »

zer0 wrote:
admin wrote:Sure, but the point is: If overwriting happens the warning could be a false positive.
Why worry about the bridge you may not have to cross until you come to it?
I guess it works both ways (also known as damned either way): in your case you don't get a warning and you end up with a failed operation due to lack of space, whereas someone with little free space who will overwrite many and/or large files, gets a false warning.

Practically, changing your On name collisions-setting to a non-overwrite one, isn't feasible?

zer0
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Re: Custom Move

Post by zer0 »

nas8e9 wrote:I guess it works both ways (also known as damned either way): in your case you don't get a warning and you end up with a failed operation due to lack of space, whereas someone with little free space who will overwrite many and/or large files, gets a false warning.
How does XYplorer "guess" that I am going to overwrite files? By the looks of things -- by proceeding with copying when there is insufficient space -- it assumes that I would overwrite a file. However, there is no reliable grounds on which for it to do so. Since a name collision would not occur until XYcopy would attempt to copy a file with the same name, I feel that it is prejudicial to skip the free space check.
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nas8e9
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Re: Custom Move

Post by nas8e9 »

zer0 wrote:
nas8e9 wrote:I guess it works both ways (also known as damned either way): in your case you don't get a warning and you end up with a failed operation due to lack of space, whereas someone with little free space who will overwrite many and/or large files, gets a false warning.
How does XYplorer "guess" that I am going to overwrite files? By the looks of things -- by proceeding with copying when there is insufficient space -- it assumes that I would overwrite a file. However, there is no reliable grounds on which for it to do so. Since a name collision would not occur until XYcopy would attempt to copy a file with the same name, I feel that it is prejudicial to skip the free space check.
The first three options for On name collisions (Ask, Overwrite, Overwrite if newer) allow for overwriting, whereas the other options will either skip copying files where the target already exist, or rename either the source (in the destination) or target file. In that way, XYplorer doesn't guess; it merely derives the possibility of overwriting taking place, from your On name collision-setting (which is Ask, I believe).

Going back to Don's rationale:
OK, I just rechecked the source code and indeed when overwriting may happen in the job, then available space is calculated per file, not for the whole job in advance. I assume this was the case in your case.

It would be quite time consuming to calculate the available space when overwriting may happen, and impossible when overwriting may happen on a per-file basis (setting "Ask" on name collision). I don't see a good way to handle this ATM.
As I read it, the moment overwriting a file becomes possible, you're either back to the dilemma:
in your case you don't get a warning and you end up with a failed operation due to lack of space, whereas someone with little free space who will overwrite many and/or large files, gets a false warning.
or
It would be quite time consuming to calculate the available space when overwriting may happen, and impossible when overwriting may happen on a per-file basis (setting "Ask" on name collision).
I appreciate that the end result doesn't work for you in this case, but blithely ignoring the above and just checking for free space when overwrite is possible, will bite users in case of the opposite situation (low free space but overwriting existing files), while automating the free space check for the two Overwrites is very expensive, and impossible for Ask.

admin
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Re: Custom Move

Post by admin »

Jerry wrote:Another configuration request for custom move: I often move small informational text files across volumes that accompany the much larger media files. For the big media files, I always want the byte verification and full custom move operation. But with the smaller text files, I don't need to see the final popup - in fact, I really don't need the custom move behavior at all. But I'm always moving the informational files as a separate step and don't want to have to keep toggling the custom move switch on/off.

Therefore, what would be helpful is to specify a size threshold, in bytes, below which the custom move would not be performed, or at least for not showing the final popup.
Yes, I see. But how would that threshold be applied when you copy multiple files at once? (As this should not be decided on a per-file basis, right?) So, would it be the sum of all bytes, or the average file size, or the size of the largest file, or what?

zer0
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Re: Custom Move

Post by zer0 »

nas8e9 wrote:XYplorer doesn't guess; it merely derives the possibility of overwriting taking place, from your On name collision-setting
But that probability cannot possibly be accurate if it is based on that name collision setting alone. Just because I may overwrite on one occasion, I may append in another. The way to make certain whether the overwriting scenario would occur at all is to check ahead of copying.
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nas8e9
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Re: Custom Move

Post by nas8e9 »

zer0 wrote:
nas8e9 wrote:XYplorer doesn't guess; it merely derives the possibility of overwriting taking place, from your On name collision-setting
But that probability cannot possibly be accurate if it is based on that name collision setting alone. Just because I may overwrite on one occasion, I may append in another. The way to make certain whether the overwriting scenario would occur at all is to check ahead of copying.
That's something to take up with Don:
admin wrote:It would be quite time consuming to calculate the available space when overwriting may happen, and impossible when overwriting may happen on a per-file basis (setting "Ask" on name collision). I don't see a good way to handle this ATM.
At a guess, the problem is scale: jobs can be one file or 10,000: the latter size makes for very expensive prep work. And then there's the Ask problem which makes accurate sizing in advance, impossible.

zer0
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Re: Custom Move

Post by zer0 »

nas8e9 wrote:That's something to take up with Don:
admin wrote:It would be quite time consuming to calculate the available space when overwriting may happen, and impossible when overwriting may happen on a per-file basis (setting "Ask" on name collision). I don't see a good way to handle this ATM.
At a guess, the problem is scale: jobs can be one file or 10,000: the latter size makes for very expensive prep work. And then there's the Ask problem which makes accurate sizing in advance, impossible.
The workflow must not assume that I will overwrite existing files, there is no guarantee of that. If I end up doing so anyway, great, but it is imperative that there is insufficient disk space, it's the basics.
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nas8e9
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Re: Custom Move

Post by nas8e9 »

@zero: I don't think I can offer new arguments; if I understand where Don is coming from, there's no satisfying all demands.

@admin: Pragmatically, I wonder whether a useful optimisation would be to check whether the destination path is empty. If empty, regardless of the On name collision-setting, it would be a simple case of enumerating the size of the job and then comparing it to the free space on the destination.

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Re: Custom Move

Post by admin »

nas8e9 wrote:@admin: Pragmatically, I wonder whether a useful optimisation would be to check whether the destination path is empty. If empty, regardless of the On name collision-setting, it would be a simple case of enumerating the size of the job and then comparing it to the free space on the destination.
Yes, good logic, I added that.

zer0
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Re: Custom Move

Post by zer0 »

admin wrote:
nas8e9 wrote:@admin: Pragmatically, I wonder whether a useful optimisation would be to check whether the destination path is empty. If empty, regardless of the On name collision-setting, it would be a simple case of enumerating the size of the job and then comparing it to the free space on the destination.
Yes, good logic, I added that.
So if there is even one item in the destination folder then free space on the destination drive would not be checked? If so, then we're back to square one.
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admin
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Re: Custom Move

Post by admin »

Jerry wrote:
admin wrote:
Jerry wrote: Correct, change comes with next beta.
Great. Another related request: I often move several files/folders to different locations, sometimes on different drives, and I always use the background processing queue. With the custom copy, only the progress dialog for the last move remains up. I would like to be able to see the progress dialogs for all the individual move operations remain, until I dismiss them. Is that possible?
Well, I think I did it (it was a bit, just a bit, easier than I had thought). Please check out v10.30.0009.

lwalker
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Re: Custom Move

Post by lwalker »

Hi!
New user here! I'm testing the trial version right now, and probably buying it if everithing works ok in my systems (W7/64bits).

One of the most usefull features for me is the custom copy. And more precisely, the queueing feature.

One disturbing thing, that took me some time to understand, is the queue itself. I feel it weird to have the copy window and the queue window as distinct windows! So, my humble suggestion is:

· Modify the actual custom copy window, adding all the enqued actions.
· Option for setting this window "on top" of any other window. I know that there are other apps that could allow me to do it, but I think this is specially usefull in this window, maybe using a checkbox in the window....
· Some options (like "close window after finish", or "overwrite collisions", etc...) could be changeable "on the fly", from the same window (as the IE download windows, for example)

I'll continue making sugestions as I continue to use the app :)

by the way, great tool! keep it growing!

regards,
luis

nas8e9
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Re: Custom Move

Post by nas8e9 »

Hi and welcome,
lwalker wrote:· Modify the actual custom copy window, adding all the enqued actions.
You make a good point that has been raised before, but unfortunately there are technical reasons why the actual file operations (copy/move/etc.) have to be performed by a separate process (XYcopy.exe). AFAIK this makes unifying the UI for both queue and operations, especially in a way that doesn't affect performance, impossible.

I'd like it myself, but alas...
· Option for setting this window "on top" of any other window. I know that there are other apps that could allow me to do it, but I think this is specially usefull in this window, maybe using a checkbox in the window....
Not sure I'd like this to be absolute; I've seen another FM where the operations window is application modal, but where minimising it makes the main window accessible again.

Personally, I'd prefer if the operations window was a normal window, but with its taskbar icon indicating progress on Windows 7 or later. I believe this is planned.
· Some options (like "close window after finish", or "overwrite collisions", etc...) could be changeable "on the fly", from the same window (as the IE download windows, for example)
For performance reasons, XYcopy.exe needs to be as lean as possible. Other than that, I do like the idea.

admin
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Re: Custom Move

Post by admin »

Adding to nas8e9's post: Custom Copy/Move is a relatively young feature. I'm collecting ideas for the next version of it (I already have a long list). There will be improvements.

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