Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Features wanted...
admin
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by admin »

j_c_hallgren wrote:
admin wrote:(2) I try to put stuff where users are likely to look for it.
If you're talking about users of other FM's who are converting over/comparing/dual-using, then this change may not be that true...I just did a brief check of x2 lite, XPlorer, FreeCommander, Q-Dir and A43 which are the other ones I have here for compare/reference (x2 is the only one I really ever use of these)...almost all have these type of options within the View menu...a couple don't really have a Tools menu...now that's nowhere near a comprehensive list but it does show the trend towards View and not Tools.

So while I agree many of these are "set & forget", I am becoming more convinced they are misplaced now than I was oriiginally...sorry. :(

Addendum: And even Opera browser has its similar options within View...
:shock: Really?! I did not know of any other file manager that even has these type of options! Do you have a screenshot (just make me believe it!).
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j_c_hallgren
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by j_c_hallgren »

admin wrote: :shock: Really?! I did not know of any other file manager that even has these type of options! Do you have a screenshot (just make me believe it!).
When I wrote "these type of options", I'm referring to the category of what is displayed and/or how it is shown, and not neccessarily the exact same options, ok?

For example, A43 has no setting under Tools that affect this category...but they have Gridlines; File Info; StatusBar; FolderSize; RowSelect; Expand on Select & Hidden/Sys toggles in Views.

XPlorer has limited options but they are within a Preferences item on Views menu...its Tools menu only has 2 items related to Network drives.

Q-Dir has this type of option within a unique "Extras" menu bar.

Ok, so x2 has a few options on the Window tab within Tools that seem similar to the options in question, but also some that (I believe) XY has only within Config so there isn't total consistency, I'll admit.
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by admin »

j_c_hallgren wrote:
admin wrote: :shock: Really?! I did not know of any other file manager that even has these type of options! Do you have a screenshot (just make me believe it!).
When I wrote "these type of options", I'm referring to the category of what is displayed and/or how it is shown, and not neccessarily the exact same options, ok?

For example, A43 has no setting under Tools that affect this category...but they have Gridlines; File Info; StatusBar; FolderSize; RowSelect; Expand on Select & Hidden/Sys toggles in Views.

XPlorer has limited options but they are within a Preferences item on Views menu...its Tools menu only has 2 items related to Network drives.

Q-Dir has this type of option within a unique "Extras" menu bar.

Ok, so x2 has a few options on the Window tab within Tools that seem similar to the options in question, but also some that (I believe) XY has only within Config so there isn't total consistency, I'll admit.
I see only Gridlines, FolderSize, and RowSelect, that's 3 out of 52 options (here in XY), in 1 out of 4 file managers. Not that convincing, or? :wink:
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graham
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by graham »

peterH wrote:
But Dons laughin "I hope you are feeling better now. :lol: "?
And Grahams "So stop messing around..."? followed by Dons "A very wise tip... :wink: "
Peter, I am not trying to be unfriendly or cruel - I spent many years in marketing and some prospects seem to just love to play around - it really is simple, check the product, if it fits better than the competition, buy it quickly before it costs more!

I think sometimes a new potential user needs to be told to decide one way or the other - the views in the forum on this issue were not a big deal. Don has his reasons and if he really thought it was a critical issue then no doubt would change it next beta however he has his reasons, whatever they are.

Using this forum issue is a nonsense when it comes to deciding if XY meets your needs. No, the real point is for any new prospective buyer to make a decision based on XY as it is and what it can do for him. If this 'trivial' issue is off-putting then XY is not a product for him. The point I was making was that XY is so much more and the placement of infrequent use settings is really inconsequential in the overall decision process. Let's face it, XY is what it is BECAUSE of the users input and Dons skills to make it happen - now how many users get a say with the competition - ever tried talking to the big guys - no chance at all! He should really be thinking along the lines of XY progress - compare XY now to 12 months ago - that is a real measure - so I re-iterate, stop messing around make a decision based on major needs and potential - XY wins, imo, hands down!

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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by j_c_hallgren »

admin wrote:I see only Gridlines, FolderSize, and RowSelect, that's 3 out of 52 options (here in XY), in 1 out of 4 file managers. Not that convincing, or? :wink:
But remember that this thread only deals with where (View vs Tools/Extras) these type of display related options are most likely to be found or looked for, and not how complex or simple they are, ok? :wink:

I was simply pointing out that Tools menus in some other products is not where they likely are to be found, and not making any comment as to how complete XY is or others are lacking, etc...that's a whole different topic!

Again, if we were to sub-menu these by one more level within Views as proposed, this would still keep them accessible within View menu but not clutter it up as much as 4 items did before.
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.

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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by admin »

admin wrote:
graham wrote:So, stop messing around, exploit XY and buy it before the price goes up!
A very wise tip... :wink:
BTW, this was a hint. A hint. A hint... when Undo is there (and it will be very soon! :D -- I can already say that this is maybe the best feature XY ever had! Not for the pope, of course, but for people that fail once in a while...) the price will go up notably.
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admin
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by admin »

j_c_hallgren wrote:
admin wrote:I see only Gridlines, FolderSize, and RowSelect, that's 3 out of 52 options (here in XY), in 1 out of 4 file managers. Not that convincing, or? :wink:
But remember that this thread only deals with where (View vs Tools/Extras) these type of display related options are most likely to be found or looked for, and not how complex or simple they are, ok? :wink:

I was simply pointing out that Tools menus in some other products is not where they likely are to be found, and not making any comment as to how complete XY is or others are lacking, etc...that's a whole different topic!

Again, if we were to sub-menu these by one more level within Views as proposed, this would still keep them accessible within View menu but not clutter it up as much as 4 items did before.
No, this was about statistics. You said that most or many other file managers would place these kind of settings in the View menu, and then you could find only 1 file manager and it only had 3 of those 52 settings in the View menu. So I said you made a very weak point there. :)
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serendipity
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by serendipity »

Amidst all the statistics, I am throwing another suggestion:
How about this:
menu
View>
Current Tab>
Columns>
Setting>

Tree Style
List style
Size Column Format
Date Column format

-----
Mini tree
FVS


The above translates to View setting, which is what Don is trying to imply by putting it into Tools. Also, it would be better to put the size and date column format into "Columns" sub-menu

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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by j_c_hallgren »

admin wrote:No, this was about statistics. You said that most or many other file managers would place these kind of settings in the View menu, and then you could find only 1 file manager and it only had 3 of those 52 settings in the View menu. So I said you made a very weak point there. :)
Don, you know that I don't wish to argue with you but having said that: I never said "most or many other", did I? Nope....I did say that in the specific 5 products I listed, the Tools menu was not where these generic category of options were most likely found but rather within the Views (or Extras)...again, even if another product has only 3 of XY's 52 settings available but they are all in Views and not Tools, then it's 100% supportive of my contention.

I looked at those 5 FM's briefly today and checked the menus, and said: Are there any display options here in Tools or are they in Views or elsewhere? The number of options never was part of it...just the location of them...and I noted that I most often found what minimal options were available within the Views...or in Extras, but not in Tools.

I'm not trying to get into complex statistics as that isn't needed...
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.

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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by admin »

j_c_hallgren wrote:
admin wrote:No, this was about statistics. You said that most or many other file managers would place these kind of settings in the View menu, and then you could find only 1 file manager and it only had 3 of those 52 settings in the View menu. So I said you made a very weak point there. :)
Don, you know that I don't wish to argue with you but having said that: I never said "most or many other", did I? Nope....I did say that in the specific 5 products I listed, the Tools menu was not where these generic category of options were most likely found but rather within the Views (or Extras)...again, even if another product has only 3 of XY's 52 settings available but they are all in Views and not Tools, then it's 100% supportive of my contention.

I looked at those 5 FM's briefly today and checked the menus, and said: Are there any display options here in Tools or are they in Views or elsewhere? The number of options never was part of it...just the location of them...and I noted that I most often found what minimal options were available within the Views...or in Extras, but not in Tools.

I'm not trying to get into complex statistics as that isn't needed...
It's not about "display options" (in a GUI app almost every option is about display), it's about "set and forget" options. These belong either in the Configuration dialog or in the Tools menu.
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Lare2
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by Lare2 »

I just read the first page so don't know if this has been proposed.

I agree with Don about the options being "set & forget". So why not putting those inside the configuration panel and be done with it.

There you have my opinion

/me hides just i case 8)

--edit--

Don mentioned this above me.... :oops: that's what you get for not reading :lol:

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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by admin »

Lare2 wrote:I just read the first page so don't know if this has been proposed.

I agree with Don about the options being "set & forget". So why not putting those inside the configuration panel and be done with it.

There you have my opinion

/me hides just i case 8)

--edit--

Don mentioned this above me.... :oops: that's what you get for not reading :lol:
:)

why not putting those inside the configuration panel? Yeah, why not! But... a few of them are not "set & forget" (IMO): Show line numbers, Show Grid, Sticky Selection, Manual Sorting, Show Age, Show Weekday. These I would keep in the menus to allow keyboard shortcuts.

But this is just blah blah. Doing such a change would be a tremendous work for me with quite little gain. This is very unlikely to happen because I have lots of ideas with a far better sweat/gain ratio.

The small question here is (and all this is really a very minor issue and I continue this thread only because of the totally surprising attention it attracted): where would a newbie look if she wants to have a grid in her list? Or if she wants to have Full Row Select? If anybody can convince me that the newbie would look in the View menu first, I'll move them back.
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Crash&Burn
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by Crash&Burn »

I'd look in an Options menu. But then, my menu's of choice aren't aligned with what XYplorer uses.
File, Edit, Mark, View, Go, Tools, Options, Start

Start appears to be akin to XY's User menu.

Tools should be ... Tools ... things that do some kind of action or multi-step command, i.e. Opening a command prompt, File Comparison, etc.

Options - would be where I'd go to Open the Config menu, or in-line options that are togglable from a menu itself.

Looks like a number of things I would think to be found in an "Options" menu are currently located in "Window".

Mesh
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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by Mesh »

admin wrote:
The small question here is (and all this is really a very minor issue and I continue this thread only because of the totally surprising attention it attracted): where would a newbie look if she wants to have a grid in her list? Or if she wants to have Full Row Select? If anybody can convince me that the newbie would look in the View menu first, I'll move them back.

To me, that's an obvious issue. The majority of users would expect to find them in the View menu. If they didn't find it there, a good portion of them would look at the main Config, followed by combing the rest of the pulldown menus. Some users would do the reverse of those last two.

But in general, you're affecting View based settings, and that's where people will think to look. No one is going to intuitively think that changing the format of the Date column is the function of a tool.

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Re: Please put the submenus back under the View Menu

Post by j_c_hallgren »

admin wrote:If anybody can convince me that the newbie would look in the View menu first, I'll move them back.
Hey, I've tried to do my best to try... :wink:
Mesh wrote:To me, that's an obvious issue. The majority of users would expect to find them in the View menu. If they didn't find it there, a good portion of them would look at the main Config, followed by combing the rest of the pulldown menus.
Or as I, (and maybe others suggested), in a named Config/Preferences sub-section of the View menu...

And as to "set&forget"...yes, but "set & forget" View options are in a different category to me from many other config options as these may need to be changed depending on what you're viewing so having it only in Config is a bit too buried away.
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.

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