Tho Wishes - Toolbar & Paper folders

[zakhar]

Hello, XY-Forum!

My wishes are:

1. Save Toolbar Configuration per script/extra command - like it works now for Catalog: #186.
This would make possible to quick save the toolbar configuration without affecting the other program settings.
This is especially useful, if XY is configured to not save its settings between sessions.

2. Sorting order for paper folders and other settings of current paper folder should be represented in that current paper folders itself.
This concerns for example folder sorting - it is now regulated per "Tools | Customize List | Manual Sorting" and using column "index".
The reason is that the above settings affect the other views by enabling "Permanent Custom Sort Order" and "index"-column-feature for all views.
Moreover current settings for each paper folder are stored some where in XY-configuration files, not in paper folders.
XY must "simply" follow the order of folders/files and other settings, that are represented in paper folder file.
Reordering folders/files in paper folders as desired must by allowed by default in the current tab/list view.

[jupe]

1) is already possible via the scripting command toolbar(), if you check out the script exchange you will find various pre-made versions by people if you didn't want to script it yourself, here is a link to one but there are many more if you search the script exchange.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6538

2) I just want to confirm that you are aware that you can just add the Manual Sorting Button to your Toolbar and click it on when you want to sort paper folder, then drag the files up or down, then click it off (or not) then save the paper folder, and if you create a Folder View Setting such as

paper:*

and have the sort order set to always sort by index, then all your paper folders will from then on be sorted by the index column, no matter what the other global sort order is.

https://www.xyplorer.com/tour.php?page=fvs

[zakhar]

1) is already possible via the scripting command toolbar()

Thank you, jupe, for pointing me to the toolbar(). This command was outside of my attention before.

To be mentioned here, that the toolbar() saves only the current buttons combination,
not the settings of each button itself.
To save this individual button settings (or settings of all buttons together) "File/Settings Special/Save Configuration" must be used
and it affects then not only toolbar, but some other program settings too, that is not desired.
That is why I wrote on 01 May 2018 17:04 under 1.
And certainly not only a command like #186, but also adding some functionality to toolbar()
could be a good solution for my wish from 01 May 2018 17:04.

[jupe]

To save this individual button settings (or settings of all buttons together) "File/Settings Special/Save Configuration" must be used
and it affects then not only toolbar

Not to detract from your stated wish but one other thing I might point out in case you weren't aware, if you want to save individual buttons, if you right click a button and select "Edit.." then in the dialog that pops up in the lower left there is a "Clear" button, if you right click that and select "Copy as Snippet" it will copy that buttons settings to clipboard so you can paste them into a file and save them. To reuse the part that it has copied to clipboard enter snippet; in the address bar and paste the text into the dialog that pops up, or right click that same "Clear" button I described earlier and select "Paste as Snippet".

[zakhar]

Not to detract from your stated wish

May be, this is what this forum and ability to communicate are for, I think so.

if you right click a button and select "Edit.." then in the dialog that pops up in the lower left there is a "Clear" button, if you right click that and select "Copy as Snippet" it will copy that buttons settings to clipboard so you can paste them into a file and save them. To reuse the part that it has copied to clipboard enter snippet; in the address bar and paste the text into the dialog that pops up, or right click that same "Clear" button I described earlier and select "Paste as Snippet".

This is a very strange and probably undocumented procedure - "snippet" is only being found under "Instant Color Filters" in help file.
Especially strange is to hide the above functionality into the "Clear" button - it has a "clearing"/"deleting" function judging by the word "Clear", not a regularizing (copy/paste) one and to involve the address bar - it may be turned off by some users and by me too. (But this is only my honest opinion and not a subject of discussion.)
To disclose and to underline one more deep embedded sense of my first posting ( ) I would add,
that only scripting solution was meant - no manually clicking/pasting & Co.

[jupe]

May be, this is what this forum and ability to communicate are for, I think so.

I am not sure what you mean by that, and I should let you know if it wasn't obvious already, I am just another user on this forum, I am not the developer, I was just trying to make you aware of a few features you might not know about that you might find useful.
The developer will still read this thread and consider your wish and let you know if he will add it.

[zakhar]

I was just trying to make you aware of a few features you might not know about that you might find useful.

And I am not getting tired to thank you for your trying.

I am just another user on this forum, I am not the developer

Forum engine says you are global moderator

The developer will still read this thread and consider your wish and let you know if he will add it.

Let it be so! And I am not making claims here. All what I post here are my modes wishes only .
I think other users will once profit too if those discussed features will be implemented.

[admin]

2. Sorting order for paper folders and other settings of current paper folder should be represented in that current paper folders itself.
This concerns for example folder sorting - it is now regulated per "Tools | Customize List | Manual Sorting" and using column "index".
The reason is that the above settings affect the other views by enabling "Permanent Custom Sort Order" and "index"-column-feature for all views.
Moreover current settings for each paper folder are stored some where in XY-configuration files, not in paper folders.
XY must "simply" follow the order of folders/files and other settings, that are represented in paper folder file.
Reordering folders/files in paper folders as desired must by allowed by default in the current tab/list view.

It's part of the feature to keep the paper folder files utterly simple: just a list of items.

[zakhar]

It's part of the feature to keep the paper folder files utterly simple: just a list of items.

I unconditionally respect this developer's view.

XYplorer is defacto a powerful !data viewer/manager! - not a simple folder/file browser -
due to it configurability and scripting capabilities.

Paper folder function is an absolutely unique feature to !keep! - in opposition to a search results -
folders (for me personally folders are now most important), that are physically located in different tree segments,
together and - if the sorting functionality will be implemented - in a user preferred !permanent! order.
This permanence gives here a new special quality represented below under the 3. point:
--
1. User usually builds a physical data structures made of files/folders physically located on disks.
2. XYplorer allows to manage, view and search these data structures, giving dynamically built search results.
3. Using Paper folder functionality XYplorer enables user to build a new "secondary/virtual" statical
(due to entries in Paper folder representing file) data structure / data structures (as there can be many of paper folders)
of files and folders, where the order of files/folders can be freely defined by user and which is
not limited by physical location and by the programmatically calculable parameters (like name, date and so on)
realizing the date structure of the second level relatively to the data structures, which content
is predefined by their physical location.
--
Without its own sorting functionality paper folders will remain "utterly simple: just a list of items".

Yes, thanks to available functionality there are other ways to achieve ordered data presentation.
I use the following sequence:
--
1. Searching for folders (by Info Panel or by an input()+quickserch() combination),
2. Using a script
2.1 to calculate some synthetical sorting criterion from the name of each found folder,
2.2 to turn "comment" column on,
2.3 to enter for each found folder under 2.1 calculated sorting criterion into the "comment" column field,
2.4 to sort under 1. found folder by "comment" column content.
--
The "comment" column is for now the only way I see to bring found folders into the desired order in the view.
I try to minimize the amount of visible functions used for building of current data structure presentation,
so that adding a column to the view is already an undesirable but unavoidable (as I see) complication.

Paper folder function can help to avoid such complicated data and view manipulation.
I think, the "data format" in a paper folder file could be like "1+C:\...",
where "1" is a sorting index of the first folder in the list and "+" is a delimiter.

The next steps of paper folder development could be:
1. adding selected folder/s(file/s) to the paper folder from the tab list view and search view using
Paper folder button and - very important - by a script command.
As I understand a folder could be added to a paper folder only from the tree view.
2. building mini tree of the paper folder content under keeping the order of
folders in the mini tree as it is in paper folder - this would significantly simplify viewing
the content of folders, that are part of a paper folder.
3. keeping paper folder loaded after clicking on a folder, which is a member of this paper folder,
and opening the clicked folder in an other tab.

Keeping Paper folder function as only an utterly simple is on the one hand methodically positive farsighted,
on the other hand it threatens to underestimate and erroneously narrow the data organisational potential
of this feature. There is no compulsion to contrapose simplicity and extension of potential
as two or more function modes can be implemented.

[admin]

If it's only about the sort order, then I could relatively easily add an option to generally respect the order as is present in the paper folder file (by simply skipping any post-read sorting). This would perfectly fit the paper folder metaphor and keep everything utterly simple.

But I assume you want more than that?

[zakhar]

I have merely represented my vision of Paper folder's potential.
Concrete realization depends on developer.

[admin]

Ultimately, yes. But maybe we can spark some discussion first and hear more voices. (But this is not on my urgent list, it's rather about developing some long-term ideas about the future of Paper Folders...)

To me personally, the sorting option (or rather non-sorting) makes a lot of sense and should be added.

[zakhar]

Yes, of course.