Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Features wanted...
SkyFrontier
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by SkyFrontier »

I see. But my point here is: since capital letters make no difference concerning live filtering (AB and TAF, too, at least in my usage - other users may disagree), why not allow a valid CKS to be triggered from there?

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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by admin »

Who knows, I might make them case-sensitive one day.
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kinook
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by kinook »

Pressing some shortcuts while in LFB mode doesn't perform the shortcut action. For instance, I have F3 & F4 tied to user commands. While in LFB, pressing F3 toggles LFB on and off instead of executing the user command, and F4 does nothing. I have to Esc out of LFB to execute the command, which I keep forgetting to do.

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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by admin »

I just fixed that F4 problem.


F3 is trickier: I hard-coded this to toggle Live Filters when pressed in the box. This works with all Live Filter Boxes in XY.

But I see the downside: F3 is the standard key for Quick Search, a very important function. And it should realy work from the LFB.

And since some week ago we also have a dedicated function + keyboard shortcut for toggling the LFB from anywhere: Menu View | Tab | Toggle Live Filter (Ctrl+Alt+F3).

So, should I free F3 from the special job in the main Live Filter Box? I think yes.
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kinook
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by kinook »

admin wrote:I just fixed that F4 problem.


F3 is trickier: I hard-coded this to toggle Live Filters when pressed in the box. This works with all Live Filter Boxes in XY.

But I see the downside: F3 is the standard key for Quick Search, a very important function. And it should realy work from the LFB.

And since some week ago we also have a dedicated function + keyboard shortcut for toggling the LFB from anywhere: Menu View | Tab | Toggle Live Filter (Ctrl+Alt+F3).

So, should I free F3 from the special job in the main Live Filter Box? I think yes.
Thanks, I agree.

nerdweed
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by nerdweed »

Don, Could you please allow Escape to clear the live filter box even if the cursor isn't present in LFB. It feels natural (and somehow already fed into my muscle memory)

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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by LittleBiG »

admin wrote:OK, I agree with both.

Only with the second. The mouse action (dbl-click) should not hide the LFB.
I think it should. And I say it after using it for a while. I intend to use the Live Filter Box only when it is necessary then I prefer it autohides itself. After filtering the folder sometimes I have to change the focus to the list pane to do some work there. In this case double click on the Live Filter Bar is a convinient place to close (and hide) the filtering. Now I have to send the focus back to the filter box and press esc there. :-( Or double click on the bar and manually hide. No good.
If you can't agree please at least pay attention to nerdweed's last comment.

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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by admin »

OK, I'll change that experimentally.
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by admin »

nerdweed wrote:Don, Could you please allow Escape to clear the live filter box even if the cursor isn't present in LFB. It feels natural (and somehow already fed into my muscle memory)
Hm, not sure. Where did your muscles learn that?
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by nerdweed »

Actually, my muscles forget that I have moved out of LFB and expect an esc to clear the live filter :ninja:

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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by admin »

Unfortunately I cannot do that. ESC has to many other jobs. You don't want the LFB to disappear at the same time.
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nerdweed
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by nerdweed »

Yes, LFB shouldn't disappear. Only wanted it to be cleared. No worries if it isn't possible.

photoman
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by photoman »

nerdweed wrote:Actually, my muscles forget that I have moved out of LFB and expect an esc to clear the live filter :ninja:
Hi Don,
I think there is a problem that can be addressed somehow.
I understand nerdweed and others asking for the escape key functionality. My fingers also expect it and are confused sometimes with the current implementation.
I wanted to keep experimenting so I could explain it to you clearly and concisely.
It's hard to explain. Making a short video would probably make it clear.

But anyway, to give an overview of the problem here are some points:
#1) I'm never looking at the LFB when I use it. So my fingers expect this::
a) If I type, the file list box will always get smaller and smaller. (Great! Very dependable. I trust it and I use it naturally.)
b) If I backspace, the filter gets broader. i.e. less specific filter (Also great. Fingers very happy.)
c) If there is a filter Escape ALWAYS brings me back to normal mode - unfiltered and everything works as usual. (As computer people we have all learned that ESC is the way to go back, or cancel changes, or move to the previous window. It means 'unwind' to us.)
#2) Everything is fine in the normal use case where you don't change focus away from LFB.
#3) Things become inconsistent with #1 ONLY when you move focus away from LFB. For example tabbing back to listbox. In this case::
a) Typing the next alphanumeric key RESETS the LFB and now we are filtering only on one character. (Unexpected. I see a massive directory already filtered down to a small subset of files and when I press another key the file listing becomes huge again)
b) Backspace now takes me up on level in the folder tree (Unexpected. I see a filtered list and I usually press backspace to "unfilter" a little bit)
c) I see a filtered list and I'm done filtering. I immediately hit Escape of course. (Nothing happens. So I smash the key a few more times and wonder why it's not unfiltering. Then I look at LFB to see the cursor is not blinking in the box. Then I learn a "hack" which is to type a random key to activate the box, and then hit Escape.)

When do we tab away from the LFB? Here are some examples.
Less than 50% of the time... probably 20% of the time in my case.
- When I want to tag a file or make a comment.
- When I want the context menu on a file.
- When I want to mark a few files for a move/copy/delete after filtering.

The implementation currently is very usable and I have become extremely productive already because of it. (Thanks !)
I understand the problem and inconsistencies you're trying to balance with, so I'm not sure what the answer is.

To explain it another way:
The LFB in my mind is not a "box".
You already have a bar above the listbox when LFB is activated showing the filter.
If that filter bar is there I don't need to ever even look at the LFB. (actually I don't look at either of them!)
I don't look at them because filtering is a very immediate thing. It's always in my mind when I use it. I never save it for later or anything like that. It's primarily a navigation tool, and search tool. It's fast and it's for now and now only.
I would imagine that even if you didn't display a toolbar AND didn't display LFB, not many people would complain.
Because the workflow is like this. Typing=filtering. Sometimes my file list looks really small and missing something... OH, ok, let me try hitting escape. Ah, that's right, I was filtering a little while ago and escape is always a dependable way to "cancel" out of things.

As a programmer, I understand your implementation. As a user, my fingers "believe" that LFB is not a separate textbox. My fingers believe that even when I filter, focus is on the listbox, with the added understanding that there is filtering going on and the first escape gets me out of filtering, and backspace doesn't change directories right now, because it has to deal with deleting characters in the filter first.
My fingers believe that LFB is a special and very small overlay on top of the listbox. (small meaning only escape and backspace function slightly differently temporarily)

Now that I think more deeply about it... what I described is what you did with Type ahead find! typing would highlight, you never showed a textbox. You never moved focus off the listbox, and if a mistake was made, hitting escape cleared the type ahead find.

kinook
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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by kinook »

^ +100! My sentiments exactly. If the box was eliminated and focus never left the list, but typing just live filtered it in the same fashion that type-ahead-find works, it would be more natural and productive.

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Re: Option for Live Filter Box instead of Type Ahead Find

Post by admin »

I must say that was pretty convincing. :appl:

I will try to make it work like this:

IF Configuration | Filters & Type Ahead Find | Type Ahead Find | Redirect typing to Live Filter Box is ON then:
a) All typing in the list works as if typing in the box (but the focus will stay in the list). I think this alone will meet all your desires (well, those you mentioned here ;) ).
b) But I will continue to show the box if there is a filter. It won't harm if you don't look at it anyway, but I think it's a good visual feedback for what's going on.
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