Tabbed Exploring

Features wanted...
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Re: Tabbed exploring

Post by admin » 01 Apr 2005 11:23

Ralph, it's fixed! Thanks again, very embarrassing thing...

RalphM
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Re: TV3 crash

Post by RalphM » 01 Apr 2005 16:03

Hi Donald

Yep, 3.60.0164 installed and works very nice and smooth again.
Column widths are remembered, as well the tabs location.
Well done, thanks.

Didn't add it to the context menu again yet, but might try it again later.
Ralph :-)
(OS: W10 1909 Home x64 - XY: Current beta - Office 2019 32-bit)

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New ideas for tabbed browsing

Post by RalphM » 01 Apr 2005 18:30

Hi Donald

As soon as you come up with some great new ideas the users come up with new ideas to improve it, he he, but meanwhile you should be used to it?!?

Ok, here my ideas:

1) Wouldn't it be nice to be able to rearrange the order of the tabs? (drag and drop maybe)
Now you have to open them in the order you want them arranged
(I'm aware you've indexed them, which might make it a bit tricky to accomplish)

2) I'd like to "freeze" the settings for some tabs, especially the folder focused, i.e. to establish "favourites" that show the same folder contents every time you switch to that tab.

3) Wouldn't it make sense, to move the "Refresh..." and "Rebuild..." menues from the "Edit" to the "View" menu?
Ralph :-)
(OS: W10 1909 Home x64 - XY: Current beta - Office 2019 32-bit)

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Re: Tabbed Exploring

Post by admin » 01 Apr 2005 18:33

Leopoldus wrote:Well, let's discuss the problem in general...
Yes, good point. Makes me think...

What about this slightly new approach?: No more special "Finding tabs" but all tabs work the same: each tab remembers its last mode (browse or find) and all the other stuff (columns etc.).
(a) Browse mode: When you re-select a tab that was browsing last time: tree will jump to that place and list will show the files (just like it is now already). Find Files settings do not change.
(b) Find mode: When you re-select a tab that was finding last time: tree will not change, the last find will run again exactly as before and list will show the results. Find Files settings change according to the tab's previous settings.

And: when doing a find from browsing, the current tab will receive that "Find"-icon (and vice versa), so you easily recognize what mode each tab is in.

Isn't that more elegant? :!: :?:

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Re: New ideas for tabbed browsing

Post by admin » 01 Apr 2005 19:17

RalphM wrote:As soon as you come up with some great new ideas the users come up with new ideas to improve it, he he, but meanwhile you should be used to it?!?
1) Wouldn't it be nice to be able to rearrange the order of the tabs?
Yeah, I'm used to a lot, also to users that don't read the news :wink: This feature is in since some days. Try Ctrl+Shift+Arrow right/left
RalphM wrote:2) I'd like to "freeze" the settings for some tabs, especially the folder focused, i.e. to establish "favourites" that show the same folder contents every time you switch to that tab.
Now that you have tabs, you want back favorites, which you have since years. Users... :lol: ... see my last mail to Leopoldus: it's all still in a fluid kind of state. I'll take your wish into account, but generally I would favor a solution that's so easy and intuitive that you don't even need to explain it. And putting a "freeze"-switch to a flexible tab thing (while you have favorites in the menu) looks like complicating things...
RalphM wrote:3) Wouldn't it make sense, to move the "Refresh..." and "Rebuild..." menues from the "Edit" to the "View" menu?
No, because they have always been there. :D Sorry, but this is not a bad reason, and there are others... I'm right now working on a toolbar (!!) and I have no time for these minor issues :wink:

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Re: Tabbed Exploring

Post by Leopoldus » 01 Apr 2005 22:16

admin wrote:Isn't that more elegant? :!: :?:
Surely is! 8)

But IMHO this design is not right:
When you re-select a tab that was finding last time: tree will not change, the last find will run again
Why to make them to run again? I think it is better to leave the tab's content alone, exactly as regular browsing tabs behaviour. We can use "Repeat last find" to refresh found files list if needed, can't we? One negative result of re-running search process each time when you choose the tab is loosing of focus' position. Another negative aspect is a bit additional time needed for this operation. There are more them aspects too.

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Re: Tabbed Exploring

Post by admin » 01 Apr 2005 22:48

Leopoldus wrote:I think it is better to leave the tab's content alone, exactly as regular browsing tabs behaviour.
Sounds nice but it's not possible. You forget that the tabs do not exist in any way, they just fake existing (remember: no objects...). Selecting a tab is always starting a fresh job. Unselecting a tab means it's completely gone. You see now?

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Re: New ideas for tabbed browsing

Post by RalphM » 02 Apr 2005 00:29

admin wrote: Yeah, I'm used to a lot, also to users that don't read the news :wink: This feature is in since some days. Try Ctrl+Shift+Arrow right/left
Though I'm a quite regular reader of this forum, I have to admit I somehow missed that one. Satisfied :lol:
admin wrote: Now that you have tabs, you want back favorites, which you have since years. Users... :lol: ... see my last mail to Leopoldus: it's all still in a fluid kind of state. I'll take your wish into account, but generally I would favor a solution that's so easy and intuitive that you don't even need to explain it. And putting a "freeze"-switch to a flexible tab thing (while you have favorites in the menu) looks like complicating things...
... same as above, didn't use your favourites menu so far at all, but I just checked the help about it and once again, nice stuff - satisfying, but I still kind of like the idea to keep the "DAU's" (sorry it's German for "Dümmster Anzunehmender User" which translates to "Dumbest User you can possibly imagine") - which I'm sometimes myself, when I'm really tired or so - to change setiings, that weren't meant to be changed.
I think it would be especially helpful for finding tabs.
admin wrote:No, because they have always been there. :D Sorry, but this is not a bad reason, and there are others... I'm right now working on a toolbar (!!) and I have no time for these minor issues :wink:
Well then, I will get used to it me thinks - after a couple more clicks on the "wrong" menu.
Anyway, you're right, just a minor issue. :)
Ralph :-)
(OS: W10 1909 Home x64 - XY: Current beta - Office 2019 32-bit)

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Re: Tabbed Exploring

Post by Leopoldus » 02 Apr 2005 09:00

admin wrote:You forget that the tabs do not exist in any way, they just fake existing (remember: no objects...).
Well, I thought tabs to be the virtual links to the real objects. Some kind of Windows' link-files - but not at the HDD, but in memory. Sorry, I'm DAU (RalphM ™), not programmer...
However is it possible after a finding tab (a tab in "find" mode) is selected and the automatic re-finding operation is completed to restore the focus position, sorting order, columns width using mode (e.g. "preview") etc.?

BTW, when I spoken about not re-finding feature I kept in mind Total Commander's conception. You know, you can make a search there and then send the result to file panel - and this panel behavioures as a regular file panel, you may freely leave it and then come back. The same situation is with many search programs (e.g. Find and Replace): after the list is generated, you can re-sort it, leave it, send it to another application etc. etc. But I see now that TrackerV uses another conception of search results list.

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Re: Tabbed Exploring

Post by admin » 02 Apr 2005 13:30

Leopoldus wrote:However is it possible after a finding tab (a tab in "find" mode) is selected and the automatic re-finding operation is completed to restore the focus position, sorting order, columns width using mode (e.g. "preview") etc.?
I'm trying to do that. Most of it is done already, don't you think?

Of course, in theory I could save a couple of result lists in memory, but you always have to think in extremes as a programmer: what if a user open 50 tabs, runs a search on each with 20,000 files found... that would be 1 million data records (à about 200 bytes each) to store and retrieve... hmm.
Another problem is: you run a search, close the tab, and open it again 5 days later. Will the results still reflect reality??

I know all of this can be solved somehow - but for the time being I want to give TrackerV3's tabs a chance to prove their power. Actually I should call them "Live Tabs"! If after some weeks it turns out that it's all disfunctional crap, I'm ready to think of a better solution.

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Re: New ideas for tabbed browsing

Post by admin » 02 Apr 2005 13:33

Ralph, forget the freeze-switch for a moment. What do you think of my "elegant" solution?: http://www.trackerv3.com/forum/viewtopi ... =1379#1379

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Re: Tabbed Exploring

Post by Leopoldus » 02 Apr 2005 22:55

admin wrote:I'm trying to do that. Most of it is done already, don't you think?
Yes, you are right. But please keep those features when you re-design tabs interface.
Of course, in theory I could save a couple of result lists in memory, but you always have to think in extremes as a programmer: what if a user open 50 tabs, runs a search on each with 20,000 files found... that would be 1 million data records (à about 200 bytes each) to store and retrieve...
Well, it gives approx 190 MB of RAM. Many applications take this amount of memory as a minimum (MS Outlook, MS Word, Opera, Acrobat, etc). A bit too much for filemanager?Yes, but you speak about extremes! Somebody unlikely will ever use 50 finding tabs simultaneously and it is absolutely no any sense to sort out 20 000 files :wink:
Another problem is: you run a search, close the tab, and open it again 5 days later. Will the results still reflect reality??
I don't see any problem here. If the actuality of the list is important you can refresh the list. But in the most occurrences you don't need 100% od reality, 99% can suite.
However you could introduce a new feature: "Automatic refreshing of files list every X days" (X = 0 .. 30, as is assigned by user in TrackerV general settings). Plus general command (shortcut) to refresh all find tabs lists all at once.
...but for the time being I want to give TrackerV3's tabs a chance to prove their power.
But they have already done it! :)

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Re: Tabbed Exploring

Post by admin » 03 Apr 2005 21:35

Leopoldus, I agree mostly. Find results caching is an option that will become real sooner or later.
For now I have been busy with the new toolbar, and I also implemented the "elegant solution". All works very nicely!! You will see it tomorrow...

Ralph, the freezing switch is surely a goody. "Freeze" is not a very good metaphor for it, however. I've been thinking of "rubber tab" (grab it and stretch it wherever you want, let it loose and it flips back to the original position), but I fear "rubber tab" has some special meaning in English. Can any mothertongue speaker help me out here?

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Post by Manifold » 03 Apr 2005 22:46

I was born and raised in North-West England, and as far as I know, it doesn't have any reference to anything obscene. It can very easily be stretched to fit that though. ;)

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Post by admin » 04 Apr 2005 09:03

Manifold wrote:... as far as I know, it doesn't have any reference to anything obscene.
:) good. But is it a good name for what I want to refer to? The idea is: you can at some point "fix" the tab to a specific configuration, then if you change anything inside that tab (folder location, column settings, browse/find mode etc...), then leave the tab and then go back to it (alternatively by some hotkey), it will reappear in that "fixed" configuration. Is rubber tab a good name for this?

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