Retina/High DPI support
Retina/High DPI support
I open this new thread as the proper place for continuing the discussion started here, http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic. ... 80#p117780
What would mean Retina support in terms of number of pixels?
Well, the following math is very simple, while the premises might be questionable, but I'll try my best to be as less biased as possible.
I work on two monitors: 1366*768 @ 15" & 1920*1200 @ 24". This calculator, https://www.sven.de/dpi/ , leads to 104.47 ppi and 94.34 ppi respectively. I guess we can safely use the average rounded value of 100 ppi for the following calculations.
The most defined computer monitors available today are in the 220-275 ppi range (Dell XPS 11, Retina MacBook Pro 13", Chromebook Pixel, Retina MacBook Pro 15", Samsung Ativ Q, Fujitsu Lifebook UH90/L, and others on that page). That means 2.5x the pixel density of my current configurations, which are pretty common.
I use large toolbar icons because are more comfortable to my sight, which isn't perfect and is similar to other members on here, who are older than me. Large toolbar icons are 24x24. To keep their size on an Retina/high-res panel they should be:
24 * 2.5 = 60 ≈ 64
pixels wide and high.
Any additional insight is more than welcome!
What would mean Retina support in terms of number of pixels?
Well, the following math is very simple, while the premises might be questionable, but I'll try my best to be as less biased as possible.
I work on two monitors: 1366*768 @ 15" & 1920*1200 @ 24". This calculator, https://www.sven.de/dpi/ , leads to 104.47 ppi and 94.34 ppi respectively. I guess we can safely use the average rounded value of 100 ppi for the following calculations.
The most defined computer monitors available today are in the 220-275 ppi range (Dell XPS 11, Retina MacBook Pro 13", Chromebook Pixel, Retina MacBook Pro 15", Samsung Ativ Q, Fujitsu Lifebook UH90/L, and others on that page). That means 2.5x the pixel density of my current configurations, which are pretty common.
I use large toolbar icons because are more comfortable to my sight, which isn't perfect and is similar to other members on here, who are older than me. Large toolbar icons are 24x24. To keep their size on an Retina/high-res panel they should be:
24 * 2.5 = 60 ≈ 64
pixels wide and high.
Any additional insight is more than welcome!
Tag Backup - SimpleUpdater - XYplorer Messenger - The Unofficial XYplorer Archive - Everything in XYplorer
Don sees all [cit. from viewtopic.php?p=124094#p124094]
Don sees all [cit. from viewtopic.php?p=124094#p124094]
Re: Retina support
Hi,
"The HP Z27q is a 5K display with a 5,120x2,880-pixel resolution" is in a class I will strongly consider resolution-wise when looking for my next monitor.
Cheers,
FH
"The HP Z27q is a 5K display with a 5,120x2,880-pixel resolution" is in a class I will strongly consider resolution-wise when looking for my next monitor.
Cheers,
FH
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 60357
- Joined: 22 May 2004 16:48
- Location: Win8.1 @100%, Win10 @100%
- Contact:
Re: Retina support
Hmm, I cannot provide icons for all different sizes (this work takes a unsane amount of time), and resampling from one big size would suck in quality.
I also think 48x48 would be too big for the vast majority of users now and the next years. I mean, you want to have a number of buttons in your toolbar... 48x48 would halve the number of buttons you are seeing now.
So, 32x32 looks best for me now. When > 50% of users have 4K I'll do the next load.
I also think 48x48 would be too big for the vast majority of users now and the next years. I mean, you want to have a number of buttons in your toolbar... 48x48 would halve the number of buttons you are seeing now.
So, 32x32 looks best for me now. When > 50% of users have 4K I'll do the next load.
FAQ | XY News RSS | XY Twitter
Re: Retina support
It's really stange that there's obviously still no great and common effort to move on to using verctor graphics. I know, for the smallest sizes individual icon art is a necessity, but for the larger stuff it should work out. There's nothing in the Win10 preview pointing in that direction?admin wrote:So, 32x32 looks best for me now. When > 50% of users have 4K I'll do the next load.
But I clearly see, how this is a pita when thinkin gin pixels only. I can't imagine the number of Chianti bottles needed to help me doing that.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 60357
- Joined: 22 May 2004 16:48
- Location: Win8.1 @100%, Win10 @100%
- Contact:
Re: Retina support
"... gin pixels ... " - yeah, I know what you mean...
FAQ | XY News RSS | XY Twitter
Re: Retina support
admin wrote:"... gin pixels ... " - yeah, I know what you mean...
Ok, that typo will stay.
Re: Retina support
48x48 would halve the number of buttons in a "standard" setup.admin wrote:Hmm, I cannot provide icons for all different sizes (this work takes a unsane amount of time), and resampling from one big size would suck in quality.
I also think 48x48 would be too big for the vast majority of users now and the next years. I mean, you want to have a number of buttons in your toolbar... 48x48 would halve the number of buttons you are seeing now.
So, 32x32 looks best for me now. When > 50% of users have 4K I'll do the next load.
Retina interfaces are supposed to keep their angular sizes instead. The same number of 48x48 buttons would fit - they'd just look more crisp. Check this, http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13146 .
I can imagine that it would be a huge work. That's why I'd be ok with paying an una tantum extra to fund a the help of a graphic designer/studio who could provide a full set of consistent and recognizable icons, with proper scaling and hinting at lower resolutions.
Tag Backup - SimpleUpdater - XYplorer Messenger - The Unofficial XYplorer Archive - Everything in XYplorer
Don sees all [cit. from viewtopic.php?p=124094#p124094]
Don sees all [cit. from viewtopic.php?p=124094#p124094]
Re: Retina support
I don't see why Retina should be different from other hi-res screens, so I'd expect the same issues I've been having all along:
Tree Plus/Minus symbols: Can't find the thread about alternatives, but they've been enlarged already and provide much better handling on hi-res than before.
Breadcrumb - triangles: http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11414
Icons: Externalize them. Pull them out of XY's bowels and allow users to replace the provided defaults with their own versions. This will take care of it once and for all. In terms of style, colors, size.
Toughest and most tedious might not be icons after all, but rather the font size of interface elements that don't scale along when you have certain Windows themes enabled, or rather, not enabled. Cranking up these fonts will truncate them in the lower info panel (which always looks bad on wide-screen hi-res), or lead to densely packed CTB-menus.
http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic. ... ilit=+font
Tree Plus/Minus symbols: Can't find the thread about alternatives, but they've been enlarged already and provide much better handling on hi-res than before.
Breadcrumb - triangles: http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11414
Icons: Externalize them. Pull them out of XY's bowels and allow users to replace the provided defaults with their own versions. This will take care of it once and for all. In terms of style, colors, size.
Toughest and most tedious might not be icons after all, but rather the font size of interface elements that don't scale along when you have certain Windows themes enabled, or rather, not enabled. Cranking up these fonts will truncate them in the lower info panel (which always looks bad on wide-screen hi-res), or lead to densely packed CTB-menus.
http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic. ... ilit=+font
Re: Retina support
Sounds as if you want to say that this would make things easyer for Don? But no question: many many people would want to continue using the supplied icons - on any circumstands, as screen sizes and resolutions. So I'm sure Don would have to continue to supply XY with all icons, for all formats.Stef123 wrote:Icons: Externalize them. Pull them out of XY's bowels and allow users to replace the provided defaults with their own versions. This will take care of it once and for all. In terms of style, colors, size.
Though I do understand the wish for customizable icons: many people would love to mess around with these
W7(x64) SP1 German
( +WXP SP3 )
( +WXP SP3 )
Re: Retina support
Not my experience with other software. Anything other than the basic default has to be obtained from 3rd party vendors or donation-ware, or from other users who share their sets of large icons.PeterH wrote:Sounds as if you want to say that this would make things easyer for Don? But no question: many many people would want to continue using the supplied icons - on any circumstands, as screen sizes and resolutions. So I'm sure Don would have to continue to supply XY with all icons, for all formats.
ed: with the range of devices nowadays, from 10" netbooks to a 40" desk-canvas, you cannot demand fitting icons out of the box. The best you can hope for, imo, are interfaces that are designed flexible enough to allow and support different resolutions . So you won't be stuck with magnifier loupes and stylus to operate the software.
Re: Retina support
+2Marco wrote:That's why I'd be ok with paying an una tantum extra to fund a the help of a graphic designer/studio who could provide a full set of consistent and recognizable icons, with proper scaling and hinting at lower resolutions.
I also would pay an extra one-time art upgrade fee.
Cheers,
Filehero
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 60357
- Joined: 22 May 2004 16:48
- Location: Win8.1 @100%, Win10 @100%
- Contact:
Re: Retina support
v15.00.0505 is my first step toward retina support.
FAQ | XY News RSS | XY Twitter
Re: Retina support
Very happy to see you taking this seriously.
Not to mention older versions, before you cranked up the tree triangles and other small improvements. XY was not looking presentable at all. I know what you're thinking - "that's because of his Classic theme"admin wrote:Yesterday I saw XY on such a screen and almost fell off my chair.
Not a pretty view.
Re: Retina/High DPI support
Hi Don,
on my brand new Surface Pro 4 (2,736 x 1,824, 267 ppi) the drag & drop cursors aren't scaled and nearly impossible to decipher. Could this be changed in a future version?
edit: more very small elements
- bread crumb bar icons/arrows
Thanks,
FH
PS: maybe the thread's tilte can be changed to Retina/High DPI support to improve searchability.
on my brand new Surface Pro 4 (2,736 x 1,824, 267 ppi) the drag & drop cursors aren't scaled and nearly impossible to decipher. Could this be changed in a future version?
edit: more very small elements
- bread crumb bar icons/arrows
Thanks,
FH
PS: maybe the thread's tilte can be changed to Retina/High DPI support to improve searchability.
Last edited by Filehero on 20 Jul 2016 07:13, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Retina/High DPI support
DonePS: maybe the thread's title can be changed to Retina/High DPI support to improve searchability.
One of my scripts helped you out? Please donate via Paypal