File management revisited

Post by **admin** » 17 Oct 2006 07:59

Let's get scientific, part 2: currently -- although my todo-list reaches the moon -- I try to get a little distance to/from XY in order to get a fresh perspective onto the project, to recognnize the necessities, to order the priorites, etc.
So I asked myself: What is file management?

Very preliminary first approach:
(1) Navigation
(2) Search
(3) Organization/Operation: Transfer (Copy, Move), Delete, Rename
(4) View
(5) Action: Open/Run

Any comments?

Post by **j_c_hallgren** » 17 Oct 2006 09:07

Where would "finding duplicates or orphans" and "synchronizing" fit in this layout, as they are tasks that I do frequently, and for which, unfortunately, XY is still not presently my first choice...for those tasks, I use other products...mainly SyncBack and xplorer2 (the free vers)...

Not sure what this may add to your dilemma, but even though folks like me are not the normal user, maybe it's time for another poll/survey of what items on your to-do list we might feel are most valuable? Don't think phpBB has provisions for voting on multiple items easily, so...

Maybe a numbered list of about 20-30 items that we could give our humble opinion of priority on? We'd need some idea of what complexity is involved in each, as I'd might rather pick three smaller/quicker items than one bigger one.

Of course, you have the ultimate choice of what changes/improvements are made, and which things are even fun to try and do...but as I've found, sometimes the little changes are more useful than some big ones.

Gandolf · Post by **Gandolf** » 17 Oct 2006 09:58

Under the heading of Navigation the biggest problem I encounter is loading a folder with a large number of sub-folders with only files in each sub-folder. 194,296ms it took XY to load just now. I know it's been discussed before and you said it was deep in the code, so not easy to change. Still worth trying to see if you can change it to something like "log entire branch" or "log only first level" type of option. I assume logging only the first level would produce a dramatic speed increase in my example.

Post by **admin** » 18 Oct 2006 12:56

Sorry, I was not clear enough, but this thread was not meant to produce wishes but a new metaphor for file management. I'm looking for a radically new approach...

ADDED: here's some food: http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/04 ... eblog.html

lukescammell · Post by **lukescammell** » 20 Oct 2006 18:35

Associating disparate things with each other. Being able to link things all over your hard drive with each other, and have that link remain no matter how you rename, copy, move files around, possibly onto other machines as well. I guess that requires a new filesystem, but I wonder if some of that can be done?

RalphM · Post by **RalphM** » 20 Oct 2006 21:03

lukescammell wrote:Associating disparate things with each other. Being able to link things all over your hard drive with each other, and have that link remain no matter how you rename, copy, move files around, possibly onto other machines as well. I guess that requires a new filesystem, but I wonder if some of that can be done?

Not sure if a new filesys is necessary. Think of it. Isn't it pretty much the same our current filesys is doing? Put bits and bytes wherever there's room for them on the HDD, then index the whole content, to enable the OS (and therefore the user) to patchwork it together again to a document when needed. The same approach is used by PLM/PDM systems that put all content in a vault (actually just a DB) index it and enable their software to manage links between the items. Then hey, a simple .lnk can bear a completely different name than the target it points to.

I believe it's already there - just the app's missing to really manage it, will it be XY?

When I started to use XY (or Tracker back then) it was primarily because I had a vision to reduce the amount of redundant files on our company network by storing all files in their appropriate directory structure, but create links in the structures of other departments to give them access to the original files without keeping them redundant (and sometimes out of synch) while allowing every department its own way of structuring data. (i.e. sales likes to sort its files by country - customer... while engineering rather sorts its by product group - specification...)

Well they didn't buy it, because everybody was afraid we would end up with a mess of 'broken' links in no time.

Ok done, sorry for this lengthy post, will try to better again...

Post by **admin** » 20 Oct 2006 22:32

Nice explanation!

RalphM wrote:...
I believe it's already there - just the app's missing to really manage it, will it be XY?

When I started to use XY (or Tracker back then) it was primarily because I had a vision to reduce the amount of redundant files on our company network by storing all files in their appropriate directory structure, but create links in the structures of other departments to give them access to the original files without keeping them redundant (and sometimes out of synch) while allowing every department its own way of structuring data. (i.e. sales likes to sort its files by country - customer... while engineering rather sorts its by product group - specification...)

Well they didn't buy it, because everybody was afraid we would end up with a mess of 'broken' links in no time.

Tell them they shall not fear! Broken links can be fixed automatically. Not yet, but if you buy 100+ licenses I don't see a problem there...

That link layer idea is really a cool approach to reduce redundancy (although redundancy can be good as a safety belt, but safety should be dealt with by backups). As you know, XY does already preview the targets of links, and it can follow folder links, so there is already extraordinary link power! (I'm still waiting to see any other app that can search following folder links!)

zridling · Post by **zridling** » 20 Oct 2006 22:42

Artificial Intelligence and Geriatric researchers hold the mind as a matrix, and within that matrix, it is your ability to store and make connections (or associations) that determines your intelligence. XYplorer's features are just tools to accommodate these connections — via search, organized folders and catalogs, improved navigation, and so on.

For me, file management is not mere function, but form. In other words, how well XYplorer — or any file management tool — allows me to make those connections, access the files/folders via search or navigation, and effectively manage the content of my drives determines its success.

Otherwise, I'm left with a mono-dimensional model: take this (file/folder), do that; take that (file/folder), and do this, ad infinitum.

RalphM · Post by **RalphM** » 21 Oct 2006 21:01

admin wrote:Nice explanation!

Thanks, so I take it you'd like to hear more about it...

admin wrote:Tell them they shall not fear! Broken links can be fixed automatically. Not yet, but if you buy 100+ licenses I don't see a problem there...

Due to language limitations of XY (no german UI) I was never planning to install XY on all clients. (as a rather small company with only +/- 60 PCs a 100+ lic would have been overkill anyway

The idea was to install it on the network (since XY can be installed like that) and set up a couple of INI files and respective start icons to do common search jobs - kind of a search agent.

admin wrote:That link layer idea is really a cool approach to reduce redundancy (although redundancy can be good as a safety belt, but safety should be dealt with by backups). As you know, XY does already preview the targets of links, and it can follow folder links, so there is already extraordinary link power! (I'm still waiting to see any other app that can search following folder links!)

Yes, XY's "follow folder links" was actually the key to that concept anyway and the reason I was so eager to have that functionality improved to the current state.

I might describe the concept later more detailed with some screenshots either here within the forum or the Wiki in case somebody else might find it useful and wants to use it for their own needs.

Post by **admin** » 22 Oct 2006 06:47

RalphM wrote:
admin wrote:Nice explanation!
Thanks, so I take it you'd like to hear more about it...

admin wrote:Tell them they shall not fear! Broken links can be fixed automatically. Not yet, but if you buy 100+ licenses I don't see a problem there...
Due to language limitations of XY (no german UI) I was never planning to install XY on all clients. (as a rather small company with only +/- 60 PCs a 100+ lic would have been overkill anyway
The idea was to install it on the network (since XY can be installed like that) and set up a couple of INI files and respective start icons to do common search jobs - kind of a search agent.

admin wrote:That link layer idea is really a cool approach to reduce redundancy (although redundancy can be good as a safety belt, but safety should be dealt with by backups). As you know, XY does already preview the targets of links, and it can follow folder links, so there is already extraordinary link power! (I'm still waiting to see any other app that can search following folder links!)
Yes, XY's "follow folder links" was actually the key to that concept anyway and the reason I was so eager to have that functionality improved to the current state.

I might describe the concept later more detailed with some screenshots either here within the forum or the Wiki in case somebody else might find it useful and wants to use it for their own needs.

That would be great! The follow folder links functionality was your invention, and because of the zero feedback (over the last 20 months!) to it I have to say: it is greatly underrated by the public or maybe not even understood in its potential. Go promote your baby!