Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

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Shaun
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 22:05

Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by Shaun »

If XYplorer is Windows 7 compliant, then why do files appear under
%userprofile%\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\XYplorer\
??? Data is written to VirtualStore when programs attempt to write to places like the Program Files and Windows folders. Why isn't XYplorer writing the dat and Panes files to a user Application Data folder? It's not a lot of data, but I think it should be written to a more appropriate location.
Thanks,
-Shaun

j_c_hallgren
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Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by j_c_hallgren »

Hi and welcome to the XY forums! I see you joined in Nov 09 but just posted now...anyway...

This topic has been covered in more than one thead before and is (I believe) somewhat within the scope of this current one:
http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4352

I'll try to locate some others and update this...ok...here's a couple:
http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic. ... rtualstore
http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic. ... rtualstore
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.

admin
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Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by admin »

I agree and I'm actually working on an automatic solution for this. It's a bit of a conflict between being portable and playing along with UAC (which is in a way a counter-portable feature).

For now, place a file called "startup.ini" with the following contents into the same folder as XYplorer.exe and you are done:

Code: Select all

[Appdata]
Path=%appdata%\XYplorer

Shaun
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 22:05

Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by Shaun »

Thanks for the info. That helped.
-Shaun

j_c_hallgren
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Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by j_c_hallgren »

admin wrote:I agree and I'm actually working on an automatic solution for this. It's a bit of a conflict between being portable and playing along with UAC (which is in a way a counter-portable feature).
And for me, I hope that solution includes a way to keep that data as done now since I detest app's that have data not within their own folder...makes it much harder to keep sys clean as one has to look in multiple locations.
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.

PeterH
Posts: 2776
Joined: 21 Nov 2005 20:39
Location: Germany

Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by PeterH »

j_c_hallgren wrote:
admin wrote:I agree and I'm actually working on an automatic solution for this. It's a bit of a conflict between being portable and playing along with UAC (which is in a way a counter-portable feature).
And for me, I hope that solution includes a way to keep that data as done now since I detest app's that have data not within their own folder...makes it much harder to keep sys clean as one has to look in multiple locations.
But please remember, as was seen many months ago, that the real reason for taking data files (like .ini) out of the programdirectory were security limitations! For these reasons no program directory should simply be modifyable. In this case UAC only makes this clearer. Even under XP only an administrative user is (by default) allowed to write to program directory - and I often intentionally run XY from a non-admin user. (If working with user data I'm glad that I can't change system data by mistake.)

From my point of view it would even be good to honor this if running portable. The problem here is, that there seems to be no default for an alternative location for (XY-)data (i.e. application-dependant data) on the portable device.

j_c_hallgren
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Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by j_c_hallgren »

PeterH wrote:But please remember, as was seen many months ago, that the real reason for taking data files (like .ini) out of the programdirectory were security limitations! For these reasons no program directory should simply be modifyable. In this case UAC only makes this clearer. Even under XP only an administrative user is (by default) allowed to write to program directory - and I often intentionally run XY from a non-admin user.
I understand the rationale but in my case, I prefer (depending on the appl obviously) to have settings stored in a common place which isn't as easily done when using appl data, AFAIK...ok, so maybe it could be stored within "All Users"?

I run as non-admin user 98%+ of the time and rely on "Run As" as needed to assist in this style of usage...but...for me, I like to have my XY setup be identical and shared between my Admin & Hallgren accts so that if I switch id's, I'm not dealing with a setup from a prior time.

But mostly, this comes from just having found hundreds of obsolete/junk files within an appl data folder (another appl, of course!) because I didn't realize they were stored there.
Still spending WAY TOO much time here! But it's such a pleasure helping XY be a treasure!
(XP on laptop with touchpad and thus NO mouse!) Using latest beta vers when possible.

PeterH
Posts: 2776
Joined: 21 Nov 2005 20:39
Location: Germany

Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by PeterH »

j_c_hallgren wrote:I understand the rationale but in my case, I prefer (depending on the appl obviously) to have settings stored in a common place which isn't as easily done when using appl data, AFAIK...ok, so maybe it could be stored within "All Users"?
Don't get me wrong: "All Users\Application Data" is like "Peter\Application data" - and I don't have any problem with that. To be true, I also prefer XY to be same for all users. But I don't know: is every non-admin user allowed to write to a directory below All Users? Just tested: the "highest" non-admin user (in german: "Hauptbenutzer" like "Main User?") *is* allowed to write.

And if a user with less rights should have a problem, you (as admin) could just allow the folder for xydata (with it's subfolders) to be changable by any user. (That's what I've done. I would *not* have done this with XY program directory!)

admin
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Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by admin »

PeterH wrote:But please remember, as was seen many months ago, that the real reason for taking data files (like .ini) out of the programdirectory were security limitations! For these reasons no program directory should simply be modifyable. In this case UAC only makes this clearer. Even under XP only an administrative user is (by default) allowed to write to program directory - and I often intentionally run XY from a non-admin user. (If working with user data I'm glad that I can't change system data by mistake.)
I just tried to install and run XYplorer from a "user" account under XP, and had no problems to write to the program directory. Please explain.

PeterH
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005 20:39
Location: Germany

Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by PeterH »

admin wrote:
PeterH wrote:But please remember, as was seen many months ago, that the real reason for taking data files (like .ini) out of the programdirectory were security limitations! For these reasons no program directory should simply be modifyable. In this case UAC only makes this clearer. Even under XP only an administrative user is (by default) allowed to write to program directory - and I often intentionally run XY from a non-admin user. (If working with user data I'm glad that I can't change system data by mistake.)
I just tried to install and run XYplorer from a "user" account under XP, and had no problems to write to the program directory. Please explain.
In the following please excuse some german words - I'll use them, as I oftem don't know/remember, how MS named them in english...

As far as I remember, I never changed security settings of program directory (c:\Programme) and it's subdirectories on my system. And now I checked them: read+write is allowed for administrators and "Hauptbenutzer", while "Benutzer" only has read authority. (Lesen+Ausführen, Ordnerinhalt auflisten, Lesen) So a "Main User" will be allowed write, while a "(Normal/Simple) User" won't.
Of course everyone can decide what type of users he uses - as long as MS even uses Administrative Users as default. But: for me that makes no sense! And I think a file manager should be usable for *every* user - in the limits of it's respective rights.

admin
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Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by admin »

PeterH wrote:
admin wrote:
PeterH wrote:But please remember, as was seen many months ago, that the real reason for taking data files (like .ini) out of the programdirectory were security limitations! For these reasons no program directory should simply be modifyable. In this case UAC only makes this clearer. Even under XP only an administrative user is (by default) allowed to write to program directory - and I often intentionally run XY from a non-admin user. (If working with user data I'm glad that I can't change system data by mistake.)
I just tried to install and run XYplorer from a "user" account under XP, and had no problems to write to the program directory. Please explain.
In the following please excuse some german words - I'll use them, as I oftem don't know/remember, how MS named them in english...

As far as I remember, I never changed security settings of program directory (c:\Programme) and it's subdirectories on my system. And now I checked them: read+write is allowed for administrators and "Hauptbenutzer", while "Benutzer" only has read authority. (Lesen+Ausführen, Ordnerinhalt auflisten, Lesen) So a "Main User" will be allowed write, while a "(Normal/Simple) User" won't.
Of course everyone can decide what type of users he uses - as long as MS even uses Administrative Users as default. But: for me that makes no sense! And I think a file manager should be usable for *every* user - in the limits of it's respective rights.
I did not change any of XP's factory settings here. My "Benutzer" has no problems to install and run XYplorer in the program directory and save the config files there as well. I hope that I get more problems on Win7... :wink:

PeterH
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005 20:39
Location: Germany

Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by PeterH »

admin wrote: I did not change any of XP's factory settings here. My "Benutzer" has no problems to install and run XYplorer in the program directory and save the config files there as well. I hope that I get more problems on Win7... :wink:
Tha's very strange.
Just had a look at it, here at work: on 2 *different* PCs "Benutzer" are defined to not be allowed to write to c:\programme.
(Both WXP SP3)
And: all are WXP professional - could that make a difference?

One is organized central - I'm not able to test more.
The other is setup by me - here I created a user as "Benutzer" and tried to create test.txt in c:\programme :arrow: no success!

So I think there is something special with your PC :?:

Could you just have a look at autorization? Very simple (on WXP prof):
- right click c:\programme and click Eigenschaften
- select Tab Sicherheit
- Click Benutzer
- have a look at what's displayed.
- Click Hauptbenutzer
- compare both

Maybe do the same with c:\programme\xyplorer (or how it's named on your system). I can't - I have it in a manual created directory e:\programme\xyplorer.

admin
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Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by admin »

PeterH wrote:
admin wrote: I did not change any of XP's factory settings here. My "Benutzer" has no problems to install and run XYplorer in the program directory and save the config files there as well. I hope that I get more problems on Win7... :wink:
Tha's very strange.
Just had a look at it, here at work: on 2 *different* PCs "Benutzer" are defined to not be allowed to write to c:\programme.
(Both WXP SP3)
And: all are WXP professional - could that make a difference?

One is organized central - I'm not able to test more.
The other is setup by me - here I created a user as "Benutzer" and tried to create test.txt in c:\programme :arrow: no success!

So I think there is something special with your PC :?:

Could you just have a look at autorization? Very simple (on WXP prof):
- right click c:\programme and click Eigenschaften
- select Tab Sicherheit
- Click Benutzer
- have a look at what's displayed.
- Click Hauptbenutzer
- compare both

Maybe do the same with c:\programme\xyplorer (or how it's named on your system). I can't - I have it in a manual created directory e:\programme\xyplorer.
I have XP Prof but no such tabs. Just this (looks the same whether from admin or from user account):
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PeterH
Posts: 2776
Joined: 21 Nov 2005 20:39
Location: Germany

Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by PeterH »

:shock: :?: This was my first reaction :shock:

But it happened that I made the "correct wrong click": on my d: - for (now unused) DOS-compatibility this is formatted FAT32 :D and looks like yours.

Instead of installing on NTFS you seam to have installed your system on FAT - and that doesn't support security! Now I understand why you never have problems on this side, and cannot understand the problems of your users...

I hope your 7 will be installed on NTFS?

ale
Posts: 127
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 23:23
Location: Italy

Re: Windows 7 VirtualStore folder

Post by ale »

admin wrote:I have XP Prof but no such tabs. Just this (looks the same whether from admin or from user account):
About the tab, I think it may not be a FAT32/NTFS issue, to see the security tab, you may try to disable simple file sharing in folder options (default is: enabled in Windows XP Professional so no security tab by default if I'm not mistaken).

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